Stampie (FS) said:
yupididit said:
frenchyd said:
In reply to Stampie (FS) :
And the same with the Jaguar. Using the early heads, a mild porting on the intake ports only. Taking a V12 to 7& 1/2 liters depending on the camshafts used you'd be up in that 600-650 range
The deal is with Jaguar you don't need to buy a new crankshaft. Special heads, studs, rocker arms, special valve springs, special pushrods, Aluminum valve covers, etc etc etc. the way you do with a Chevy.
when I built 430 cu in small blocks back in the 1990's I would have about $11,000 in parts doing so. That was after I found a good 400 cu in 4 bolt block that passed crack testing. ( Today Is skip the hunting and go right to the new aftermarket blocks. )
When I built my bored and stroked V12 I had about $5500 in it back then. That included 2 new Piper Billet cams.
okay without all the fluff.
Whats all needed to make 600-650hp?
And how much you saying this cost?
TLDR version of Frenchy ... Do you have a machine shop in your garage? No problem just a few thousand dollars and hundreds of your hours.
My vertical mill I paid $300 for and sold it for the same $300 many years later. It wasn't fancy. An old converted flat belt drive.
Time to narrow 12 rods. A couple of hours. One hour to whip up a jig. Another hour to do the work.
Stuff production shops give up on still works or works with simple repairs. You'd be surprised what you can do with just a drill press and a simple jig.
SVreX (Forum Supporter) said:
In reply to Stampie (FS) :
Mild porting does not require a machine shop. Even I have done it with only hand held power tools.
And I'm just a friggen carpenter.
I'm sure you have. That's what I did my first few times. Then I began to compete with others who'd spent really serious money for professionally ported heads and were blowing by me like I was parked.
What I learned is porting is about measurement. And Knowledge.
if one cylinder gets much more flow than another you often don't gain power but lose it. If you do gain it it won't be as much as someone who produces the same flow for every cylinder.
The big shops use modern flow benches. While I used a shop vacuum and a Unisyn. I could never get the same flow numbers as the pros did. Until I started using my vertical mill to do repeative work.
Then my time went for porting a set of heads from 200 hours to less than 20. Plus my flow numbers improved.
In reply to frenchyd :
oh geeze, I don't have the machine shop tools, space, or skills to offset grind cranks, narrow rods, and make custome sleeves etc. And I'd imagine it cost a fair bit to farm out all that work + parts. I know it cost you $5500 in (I think) 30 years ago money?
Maybe I'll just run the v12 until it poops and sell it then swap in a lq4 and add on some ls6 parts and see what I would get out of that.
Stampie (FS) said:
yupididit said:
frenchyd said:
In reply to Stampie (FS) :
And the same with the Jaguar. Using the early heads, a mild porting on the intake ports only. Taking a V12 to 7& 1/2 liters depending on the camshafts used you'd be up in that 600-650 range
The deal is with Jaguar you don't need to buy a new crankshaft. Special heads, studs, rocker arms, special valve springs, special pushrods, Aluminum valve covers, etc etc etc. the way you do with a Chevy.
when I built 430 cu in small blocks back in the 1990's I would have about $11,000 in parts doing so. That was after I found a good 400 cu in 4 bolt block that passed crack testing. ( Today Is skip the hunting and go right to the new aftermarket blocks. )
When I built my bored and stroked V12 I had about $5500 in it back then. That included 2 new Piper Billet cams.
okay without all the fluff.
Whats all needed to make 600-650hp?
And how much you saying this cost?
I won't be long winded. $7300 and just need to hit the order link.
https://blueprintengines.com/products/496-ci-stroker-crate-engine-big-block-gm-longblock-bp4962ct
And it comes dyno proven at 600 hp WITH A 30 month, 50,000 mile warranty !
In reply to yupididit :
Well no I don't do everything. Just simple stuff I can do with equipment I had.
Offset crank grinding is one thing that I said I farmed out. If I spent less than $200 to do it 30 years ago it probably hasn't much more than doubled.
Buying British camshafts another. Reground camshafts will at best go from the stock lift of .375 to .410 Billet cams not only got me to . 495 with a lot more duration.
even if you don't have a vertical mill I'm sure someone there can do it. It's very simple straight cut milling. So you spend $50-100 more than I did .
Don't be afraid of the V12. Once you get into it you'll find its really pretty simple. If you can build a durable Chevy you can build a Jaguar.
Remember not to use Metric wrenches The British taught us an inch was 3 barly corns from the middle of the ear and 12 inches equal a foot So 9/16, 3/4 etc yes American taps and dies! A lot of fine thread but into aluminum castings are coarse thread.
( The funny part is they switched to Metric when Ford bought them)
Indy "Nub" Guy said:
Stampie (FS) said:
yupididit said:
frenchyd said:
In reply to Stampie (FS) :
And the same with the Jaguar. Using the early heads, a mild porting on the intake ports only. Taking a V12 to 7& 1/2 liters depending on the camshafts used you'd be up in that 600-650 range
The deal is with Jaguar you don't need to buy a new crankshaft. Special heads, studs, rocker arms, special valve springs, special pushrods, Aluminum valve covers, etc etc etc. the way you do with a Chevy.
when I built 430 cu in small blocks back in the 1990's I would have about $11,000 in parts doing so. That was after I found a good 400 cu in 4 bolt block that passed crack testing. ( Today Is skip the hunting and go right to the new aftermarket blocks. )
When I built my bored and stroked V12 I had about $5500 in it back then. That included 2 new Piper Billet cams.
okay without all the fluff.
Whats all needed to make 600-650hp?
And how much you saying this cost?
I won't be long winded. $7300 and just need to hit the order link.
https://blueprintengines.com/products/496-ci-stroker-crate-engine-big-block-gm-longblock-bp4962ct
And it comes dyno proven at 600 hp WITH A 30 month, 50,000 mile warranty !
Long Block plus the right intake manifold exhaust manifolds and carburetor plus starter vibration damper water pump pulley's, distributor, plugs, wires, coil, and whatever else I missed.
Oh and you'll need a transmission, flex plate,
plus adaptor to fit in the Jag and a 8 cylinder tach that looks like the rest of the instruments. Not to mention all the HVAC. Stuff
I think it would still be a lot cheaper to update the V12
In reply to frenchyd :
Show us the 600hp Jag V12 crate motor you can just order easy peasy.
Stampie (FS) said:
In reply to frenchyd :
Show us the 600hp Jag V12 crate motor you can just order easy peasy.
Not sure I would want any V12 crate motor made by Tata Motors.
frenchyd said:
Indy "Nub" Guy said:
Stampie (FS) said:
yupididit said:
frenchyd said:
In reply to Stampie (FS) :
And the same with the Jaguar. Using the early heads, a mild porting on the intake ports only. Taking a V12 to 7& 1/2 liters depending on the camshafts used you'd be up in that 600-650 range
The deal is with Jaguar you don't need to buy a new crankshaft. Special heads, studs, rocker arms, special valve springs, special pushrods, Aluminum valve covers, etc etc etc. the way you do with a Chevy.
when I built 430 cu in small blocks back in the 1990's I would have about $11,000 in parts doing so. That was after I found a good 400 cu in 4 bolt block that passed crack testing. ( Today Is skip the hunting and go right to the new aftermarket blocks. )
When I built my bored and stroked V12 I had about $5500 in it back then. That included 2 new Piper Billet cams.
okay without all the fluff.
Whats all needed to make 600-650hp?
And how much you saying this cost?
I won't be long winded. $7300 and just need to hit the order link.
https://blueprintengines.com/products/496-ci-stroker-crate-engine-big-block-gm-longblock-bp4962ct
And it comes dyno proven at 600 hp WITH A 30 month, 50,000 mile warranty !
Long Block plus the right intake manifold exhaust manifolds and carburetor plus starter vibration damper water pump pulley's, distributor, plugs, wires, coil, and whatever else I missed.
Oh and you'll need a transmission, flex plate,
plus adaptor to fit in the Jag and a 8 cylinder tach that looks like the rest of the instruments. Not to mention all the HVAC. Stuff
I think it would still be a lot cheaper to update the V12
Frenchyd, To be fair, your recipe for making the 600hp also involves buying intake manifolds and carburetors (from an XKE because Only the early jaaags came with them). All the cars you promote keeping the V12 in, have factory fuel injection. The fuel injection you yourself, the resident jaaaag expert, advises everyone to just yank off and through in the trash.
Those intake manifolds and carbs are NOT cheap either.
Example of ONE side of carbs needed: $399 on eBay.
Then you need the other side too, so approx. $798 additional cash. You never include this cost in your "free" V12 build scenario so often promoted.
In reply to frenchyd :
Not afraid of V12's at all. I just don't see myself going through all that vs other proven methods. Sorry an old guy on the internet with no dyno evidence or anything isn't proven to me. Plus, I've seen people disagree with your (mguar) claims in the XJS section of the jag forums, with proof or sound reasoning. Even if I wanted to try, not everyone has 50 jaguar v12 engines laying around and nearly free 1990 machinist in their pocket just in case they berkeley it up.
In reply to Indy "Nub" Guy :
For a quarter of that I bought two BBC heads, an intake, and got a QJet carb out of the junkyard a few weeks back.
In reply to Indy "Nub" Guy :
Are old Strombergs worth big money now, or is that just for the intake?
Stampie (FS) said:
In reply to Indy "Nub" Guy :
For a quarter of that I bought two BBC heads, an intake, and got a QJet carb out of the junkyard a few weeks back.
31 years ago i got a BBC for free
Thought exercise:
Can one get 450ish hp from a 6.0 LS engine without disassembling the short block? If so, can one do it with used parts from other LS engines? Or cheap new parts (like Dorman LS3 intake manifold on rockauto for $200)?
In reply to yupididit :
Should be pretty easy with a cam and tuning. Didn't they have like 425hp from the factory?
Edit looks like 345hp.
Double Edit LS2 was 400hp
In reply to yupididit :
YES. Can, heads and Valve springs.
Edit: Stempie beat me to it 
It looks like you can run jaguar gauges for tach, speedo, oil psi, and water temp too.
Snowdoggie said:
In reply to Indy "Nub" Guy :
Are old Strombergs worth big money now, or is that just for the intake?
A quick check shows Zenth Stromberg 175's selling for about $65 each on EBay. The Carb manifold isn't that rare. With more than 25,000 sold and the majority of those came here to America.
California alone accounts for more than 50% of Jaguar's production. But I know a lot of them have been reused in later cars. It was the common go to for those of us who did not understand the fuel injections and didn't want the expense of Weber's.
Personally I swap the Zenth Strombergs for the HD 8 SU. That's what Group 44 did when they won the SCCA Championship with their XKE. V12
Huffaker used the Zenith Strombergs and made more power, but I'm just not that comfortable with them. Curto stocks parts for both in New York as does Moss motors and others.
In reply to frenchyd :
My 79 MGB had a single Stromberg that looked just like that. My 74 MGB and just about every other British car I ever owned had twin SUs.
In reply to Snowdoggie :
I think it's the same basic carb but don't know about the needle.
If you're looking for a V12 carb set there are several places to look. I keep stumbling across them periodically sometimes really cheap sometimes for scrap metal prices. Never seen a High dollar set.
frenchyd said:
Snowdoggie said:
In reply to Indy "Nub" Guy :
Are old Strombergs worth big money now, or is that just for the intake?
A quick check shows Zenth Stromberg 175's selling for about $65 each on EBay. The Carb manifold isn't that rare. With more than 25,000 sold and the majority of those came here to America.
California alone accounts for more than 50% of Jaguar's production. But I know a lot of them have been reused in later cars. It was the common go to for those of us who did not understand the fuel injections and didn't want the expense of Weber's.
Personally I swap the Zenth Strombergs for the HD 8 SU. That's what Group 44 did when they won the SCCA Championship with their XKE. V12
Huffaker used the Zenith Strombergs and made more power, but I'm just not that comfortable with them. Curto stocks parts for both in New York as does Moss motors and others.
For those of us who don't have a left and right side Carb Intake Manifold for the V12 Jag, How are we going to get them? At this point production numbers are irrelevant. It's not like XKE's are in the junk yards anymore.
eBay may be the only option.
In reply to Indy "Nub" Guy :
Looks like there are still some wrecking yards full of Jaguars out there...
https://www.jaguarheaven.com/
https://www.jagbits.com/
In reply to Snowdoggie :
Great. Can you get a quote on a pair of V12 Carb manifolds shipped? They don't have pricing on their websites.
In reply to Indy "Nub" Guy :
Jagbits kinda pricy, in my X308 XJR experience lol
