Stampie (FS) said:
frenchyd said:
yupididit said:
frenchyd said:
yupididit said:
frenchyd said:
In reply to 03Panther :
That's correct. But somehow people seem to think the reason to not take advantage of the cheap cost of a V12 is it's cheaper to make X amount of power With whatever.
But it is though 
If 600 horsepower is your standard, then I assume everything you own has at least 600 hp?
Nah, I'm saying it's easier to make X amount of power with an LS engine than v12 jaguar engine. Or even a 454. You keep moving the needle on the debate, so there's no point and I knew better.
I don't know when 600 became the magic number you're required to have to make a car worthy.
But I'll play the game.
Tell me what you can buy the required LS engine and transmission for, plus ECM etc etc buy the kit to install it. Get it working. Properly with HVAC working, gauges all matched and working. And make a nice reliable 600 horsepower.
Then I'll take that same amount ( or less ) and do it with the V12
. Twin turbo I talked about that on 4 /27/15. But actually built it in the early 2000's
If you remember I once kludged a XJS with a pair of junkyard Saab turbo's and made just short of 500 horsepower one a budget of chump car budget of $500. With E85 and a pair of regrind camshafts I'm pretty sure I can make the extra 100+ horsepower.
It’s been proven that slap on a turbo method gets you 800 LS horsepower. Yes bigger injectors are required. Still more power than Jag V12 and cost less. Don’t know why you insist on arguing that a 60 year old V12 is a better engine than a modern designed abet 20 year old.
So now the number has shifted from 600 to 800? So what would a LS and transmission that will take the 800 horsepower plus all the required stuff cost when swapped into a Jaguar?
In reply to frenchyd :
I don’t care about your Jaguar. I’m arguing engines and cheap. If you really want 600 and are scared of the extra 200hp we can always turn down the boost on the LS. Oh and I’d use a TH400 trans I could junkyard for less than $100. At least Jaguar got that right when they put them in their cars.
I still want to 2jzgte an XJS.
In reply to Stampie (FS) :
I agree it’s a cool engine. But better? Does steak taste better than lobster? Don't think anyone would write paragraphs ‘bout that. And cheaper? I would rather have cool than fast, but I won’t argue that a flathead is cheaper to put in a 48 ford than a sbc. And before it starts, no, I’m not comparing a v12 to a flathead. Just an example of one of the coolest engines ever, that few folks will run, because sbc is the easy button.
frenchyd said:
03Panther said:
In reply to frenchyd :
"made just short of 500 horsepower one a budget of chump car budget of $500. With E85 and a pair of regrind camshafts I'm pretty sure I can make the extra 100+ horsepower. "
That's wicked impressive! So you did make the 500 to 600 goal I asked about on a budget! That would would have been an answer I understood. Instead of paragraphs of how expensive checks are and something about grannies caddy
I'm a Luddite. it would be simple if I could cut and paste stuff like all you younger people do. Then I could Show you that in the early 2000's I built a slightly less than 500 horsepower V12 V12 on the $500 Chump Car budget. Legitimately
( the post about V12 mods)
I am being dead serious. I completely believe you. You have enough knowledge to have the cred. No snide comments here.
Just pointing out that answering with that cool of an accomplishment would have been better than paragraphs of non relevant info.
No one here is stating a changing hp range. Just discussing available high hp at less cost than a jag v12
building a 500 hp anything for a $500 class was playing fast and loose with the rules even almost 20 years ago... don’t think a jag could do it today for a legitimate $500. Might be wrong, but again, I’d have to be shown... hey you showed my statement of 500 to 600 fairly cheaply could be done with a jag. Again great job there!
There is another area that defines value... Resale price.
If I take a '32 Ford and put a 500 hp LS in it, my resale is gonna be really high when it's time for me to sell it. Or even an SBC (although, there is absolutely nothing unique about that). Or a big block.
If I take the same car and put a 500 hp Jag motor in it, I'm gonna have a hard time selling it (fewer potential buyers), and when I do, the price tag will be $2000 less. (Unless, of course, I'm selling to Frenchy!)
There is NO difference in the cost of the build or the difficulty. The ONLY difference is the perceived value to the market. Buyers want the LS. They don't want the Jag.
In reply to SVreX (Forum Supporter) :
I agree with your basic premise. But :
1. There is a HUGE difference in cost and difficulty. For the easy button, you can buy the pre made parts to build with chubby almost anywhere. Not so with ANY other engine. Heck you could build a chebby deuce coupe cheaper than an all ford! Jag, no easy button.
1. A. I've never put a chebby in a jag, or a jag in a jag, so that's not involved in this reply...
2. I personally don't build stuff just to sell, but I know a lot of guys that claim to be "car" guys, are more "money" guys. (but that is completely off topic!)
In reply to SVreX (Forum Supporter) :
I almost bought a 32 Ford PU back in 82 (for $4K... My, times have changed) with a 302. Guy said he coulda sold it a dozen times, but they would leave when they saw it didn't have that easy button sbc in it! No accountin' for tastes!
In reply to 03Panther :
Agreed. I was just trying to give Frenchy the benefit of the doubt and call them equal price to install.
I did get to drive a friends XJS a few times in the 90’s loved the car, but not impressed with its power. Nice and smooth, and her 68 vette not, but a generic replacement 350 in the vette was faster. I’m sure there was a weight penalty, and the jag was more comfortable, but I know one can build more for less $$$. Personally, I’d rather have the jag, I just don’t it’s the easy button.
In reply to 03Panther : What you felt is a lack of acceleration . That's because it has a 2:88 final drive designed to go 150 mph
With 4665 pounds it's going to be slow getting there but it will do it in smooth comfort.
Throw a Chevy in there and it won't be faster or get there quicker but it's an engine most Americans are familiar with. To many people that is most important
In reply to 03Panther :
Your comment about if the Chevy has more power really hit the nail on the head. Why I think a swap is such a con job.
First I like( love) Chevy's. I've owned them most of my life. I started buying new Chevy's back in 1972. And kept being a loyal new Chevy customer until 2017. That's 11 new Chevy's & 3 used ones.
They've all given me great service. ( well, one caught fire and burned to the ground). The Ford I bought was my first one. That's after 20 years and 371,000 miles with my Chevy pickup.
But. 350 Chevy starts out with 102 less horsepower than a Jaguar. Yes once the LS came out it caught up but by that time (1997 ) Jaguar stopped making the V12.
In reply to SVreX (Forum Supporter) :
Paul, this is one of those threads. 
In reply to Toyman01 (Moderately Supportive Dude) :
You're right!
Post deleted. Thanks!
Toyman01 (Moderately Supportive Dude) said:
In reply to SVreX (Forum Supporter) :
Paul, this is one of those threads.
Hey, it passes the time better than the angry people on the "panic" thread! At least this one is all in fun... at least from me; and I assume frenchyd as well.
In reply to 03Panther :
It's a reference to an offline conversation Toyman and I are having.
In reply to 03Panther :
Me? I'm here just because I like poking the bear.
Stampie (FS) said:
In reply to 03Panther :
Me? I'm here just because I like poking the bear.
I know... and I love it! Do you think frenchyd knows that? He seems to be a good sport about it. I'm not sure I could be as good a sport, but it is a goal to look up to!
It's been said that arguing with me is like wrestling a pig... all it does is get ya dirty, and after a while you realize the pig enjoys it!!!
In reply to 03Panther :
I was thinking the yesterday we should do a $2000 engine Challenge. Let frenchyd build his Jag V12 for 2k. I bet you any one of a 2k LS, SBC, or BBC not only beats his peak HP and Torque but also would have more under the curve than his.
In reply to Stampie (FS) :
Unlike many, I'm not a diehard chebby fan, although I've owned more gm products than anything else! I got to spend a weekend at Fords 100th Anniversary, and is was great seeing a bunch of ford hots rods, with ford drivetrain's. But I know where the least expensive HP is! Don't have to LIKE admitting it, but it's been the truth for a long time now. 
In reply to Stampie (FS) :
By the way, your since of humor (and the guys that pick on you) is one of the reasons I like this place!
In reply to 03Panther :
I'm an shiny happy person. I freely admit it. But 99% of the time I'm an shiny happy person I"m just having fun.
In reply to Stampie (FS) :
<BBC
yupididit said:
In reply to Stampie (FS) :
<BBC
Well yeah cause you're a bigger fan boy for BBC than frenchyd is for Jag V12.
