In reply to frenchyd :
You may very well be able to build the better motor. In fact, I'd put my $10 on you.
However if FMV for anything currently owned by a competitor will be decided by Challenge rules, then you are gonna lose. That's Stampie's home turf in a game you've never played.
He'll have a new rule named after him before it is all over.
You guys can't measure engine against engine on the track. That's measuring car against car. (Or maybe driver against driver)
SVreX (Forum Supporter) said:You guys can't measure engine against engine on the track. That's measuring car against car. (Or maybe driver against driver)
But on an engine dyno tho... lol
SVreX (Forum Supporter) said:You guys can't measure engine against engine on the track. That's measuring car against car. (Or maybe driver against driver)
That's why he wanted all the car rules. 15x8 wheels to limit my traction because I'll make more torque. Only in a car that they put the engine in originally because he wants me to bring an ill handling American car/truck. That's why I prefer just an engine on a dyno. My engine is bigger/better/last longer/everything more than yours.
Frenchy forgot to ask, Did I paint myself into the BBC corner or am I allowed BBC, SBC, or LS since we've discussed all three in this thread?
In reply to Stampie (FS) :
Oops I accidentally put a turbo on a Honda.
Stampie (FS) said:Frenchy forgot to ask, Did I paint myself into the BBC corner or am I allowed BBC, SBC, or LS since we've discussed all three in this thread?
I would say since the LS has repeatedly been pointed out that the LS is a newer design, the rules should not allow one. But before we started baiting him, the post was for a BBC Jag, so... I say either BB or SB is fair game. 
In reply to 03Panther :
But the Jag V12 is the second coming and anything Chevy is the antichrist. I doubt even Frenchy has the cojones to put a Jag V12 against a LS.
In reply to Stampie (FS) :
I assume thats why he often points out that the LS is "newer."
In fairness to him, the proper challenge would be to take two identical Jags, with the V12 already pulled, and someone put a chebby into one while he builds the other. I just don't know anybody that wants a chebby in a jag bad enough to bother!
Not my cup of tea... but I know it could be done with fab skill cheaper than buying a WAY overpriced kit, and although an aluminuim v12 is cool, the chebby can be built with more power, cheaper.
Stampie (FS) said:Frenchy forgot to ask, Did I paint myself into the BBC corner or am I allowed BBC, SBC, or LS since we've discussed all three in this thread?
Since we started a Ive said that the Small block Chevy ended about when the V12 ended.
The LS is a new design So is Jaguar's V8.
Since there is always something newer and faster( (and more expensive) I'm not interested in bigger newer faster.
I think the original discussion was about a big block Chevy. versus a V12 but if you want a small block that's OK.
Stampie (FS) said:In reply to 03Panther :
But the Jag V12 is the second coming and anything Chevy is the antichrist. I doubt even Frenchy has the cojones to put a Jag V12 against a LS.
Out of curiosity If I felt that way about Chevy's why would I buy 11 new Chevy's and 3 used ones over my lifetime?
In reply to frenchyd :
I hate Fords yet I own three of them. Just saying.
Stampie (FS) said:SVreX (Forum Supporter) said:You guys can't measure engine against engine on the track. That's measuring car against car. (Or maybe driver against driver)
That's why he wanted all the car rules. 15x8 wheels to limit my traction because I'll make more torque. Only in a car that they put the engine in originally because he wants me to bring an ill handling American car/truck. That's why I prefer just an engine on a dyno. My engine is bigger/better/last longer/everything more than yours.
I selected 15x8 wheels because they are affordable and since Chevy uses Jaguar bolt pattern ( attempt at humor) they could be common. But if you prefer I have 16x 7's on it ( stock Jaguar ) the wheel wells will take up to 17x12
As far as all the rules all I'm trying to do is keep it affordable and fair
As far as ill handling? Are you saying a Corvette or Camaro are bad handling? I've owned both and while not as refined and sophisticated as the Jaguar they certainly handled well enough. I'm pretty sure their cornering numbers are better than the Jaguar.
As far as measuring car, against car, exactly. For as Long as I've been here I've said that a Jaguar is a great value. That Chevy's while good cars. ( I've owned 14 ) and have a great following. There is a better value in Jaguars for racing.
Finally, I'm 72 and probably more than 135 pounds overweight. Surely you youngsters aren't afraid of a fat old grandpa beating you?
Stampie (FS) said:In reply to frenchyd :
I hate Fords yet I own three of them. Just saying.
I never said anything bad about Chevy. Unless you think the truth is bad. Most Chevy's are cast crank hydraulic lifters mild versions. Not the fire breathing versions found in a few rare cars.
But I'm a low budget racer and always have been. I could afford to play with the big international stars only because my Jaguar was cheap and reliable.
I took mostly stock parts and raced with guys who spent $15-20,000 on just their motors.
I built my share of Chevy small blocks. Both the DeMar and My Corvette had small blocks. Plus a few others. I know what it takes to be reliable enough to race. No stock crank, 2 bolt block will do. 4 bolt block at a minimum. After market rods forged crank, forged pistons. Serious aftermarket aluminum heads, careful mating of intake manifold and carbs or Fuel injection.
yupididit said:SVreX (Forum Supporter) said:You guys can't measure engine against engine on the track. That's measuring car against car. (Or maybe driver against driver)
But on an engine dyno tho... lol
What do you prove on a dyno? Some flash number made with a big nitrous Jet ? Cute.. hold that for 30 minutes or so and you might have something. That's basically drag racing. I did that, once, yawn! You can pretty much replicate that on just about any freeway on ramp. Just push on the pedal.
Road racing you do that many times a lap plus maximum braking and cornering at maximum speed. 14 times a lap for 20 laps or so.
I'm all for anything that gets Frenchy to build a fire breathing V12! The only V12 I've worked on was an Aston Martin that was really just two V6 Fords. If I lived near him I'd go help just to learn something about Jags.
In reply to frenchyd :
It sounds like you want to go head to head at Lemons or similar.
That would be bitchin.
In reply to Pattyo :
Track night with SCCA is a whole lot simpler. No rollbar rules or fuel cells etc. gotta be a safe streetable car.
In reply to frenchyd :
Finally, I'm 72 and probably more than 135 pounds overweight. Surely you youngsters aren't afraid of a fat old grandpa beating you?
Love that line! Go frenchyd!
For as Long as I've been here I've said that a Jaguar is a great value.
To be fair, you do go WAY beyond that, when you get wound up on a soap box. That's why we enjoy proddin' ya! I ain't even been here long, and
I've even started.
But I repeat what I said on a previous post on Jags... You'll be my source if I ever DO scratch that itch of a V12 in a jalopy!
NOT A TA said:I'm all for anything that gets Frenchy to build a fire breathing V12! The only V12 I've worked on was an Aston Martin that was really just two V6 Fords. If I lived near him I'd go help just to learn something about Jags.
That 2 V6 Fords makes a lot more power than Jaguar's offering. But again it's newer technology.
Jaguar's V12 originated in 1954 actually designed in the 1960's as a 5 liter 505 horsepower race motor. updated in the late 60's to be a power plant for big sedans designed with the potential to go out to 8 liters. first built in 1971 and ended production in 1997.
In reply to Stampie (FS) :
Stampie. I've gotta be fair, road racing is different than a flash pull on a dyno. What you can get away with on a dyno will blow up 4-5 laps into a road race.
good crank, good rods, well sorted oiling system.
Road racing is long pulls to redline. Using engine braking to help even well updated brake systems. It's more than 30 minutes of the engine giving all its got.
Do yourself a great big favor. Don't insist on big sticky tires. Chevy's oiling system won't like the oil surging away from the pickup and an accusump isn't the answer.
Yes those big sticky tires will help you turn faster laps. But they will help me the same amount.
In reply to frenchyd :
I'm formulating what I think are fair rules in my head but as far as your trying to make it "affordable" that''s exactly why we have a budget limit. I'm still thinking but I'm leaning towards a $1000 limit on full Challenge budget rules. The Challenge budget rules makes it easy because they're already there and they've been tweaked through the years to take care of shenanigans. Plus you want to build a race car for whatever use you have. I build for the Challenge so it makes no sense for me to build a full car just to kick your old overweight behind with my slightly younger overweight behind.
Would there be a way to get frenchy & Stampie into a multi-faceted challenge that is three parts Chevy vs Jag and one part physical fitness? Like some year long challenge where they build a car and improve on their BMI's and whatever other ways we can argue about how in-shape they are?
EDIT: What if they both built for the Challenge and they both agreed on the car chassis to use? Like they both have to build A-body Malibu's, or XJ40's, or Dodge Darts with their engine of choice?
Stampie (FS) said:The Challenge budget rules makes it easy because they're already there and they've been tweaked through the years to take care of shenanigans.
I really disagree with this. The current rules allow for FAR more shenanigans than the old rules ever did.
I think they are a big mess.
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