Sadly, the Frenchy vs Stampie war will never happen. It's just the big bad wolf and the little pig throwing noise back and forth.
At core the issue that will never be overcome is that Frenchy is a road racer, and Stampie builds cheap E36 M3 for the Challenge. Neither one would actually want to participate in the other's game.
But it's still fun to watch. 
In reply to SVreX (Forum Supporter) :
It would make for a really interesting read though......
Now if only there was a magazine that could facilitate and document the rivalry........
Indy "Nub" Guy said:In reply to SVreX (Forum Supporter) :
It would make for a really interesting read though......
Now if only there was a magazine that could facilitate and document the rivalry........
Now that is a great idea! Tim this is your cue to take it from here......
SVreX (Forum Supporter) said:Sadly, the Frenchy vs Stampie war will never happen. It's just the big bad wolf and the little pig throwing noise back and forth.
At core the issue that will never be overcome is that Frenchy is a road racer, and Stampie builds cheap E36 M3 for the Challenge. Neither one would actually want to participate in the other's game.
But it's still fun to watch.
It's more than that though, it's distance. Stempie is in Florida. I'm in Minnesota. The cost of either traveling to the others location is really significant.
SVreX (Forum Supporter) said:Stampie (FS) said:The Challenge budget rules makes it easy because they're already there and they've been tweaked through the years to take care of shenanigans.
I really disagree with this. The current rules allow for FAR more shenanigans than the old rules ever did.
I think they are a big mess.
I'm willing throw out self trade. That removes most of the BS.
In reply to frenchyd :
I'll come to you. Shelby didn't make Enzo come to America so he could kick his behind.
pres589 (djronnebaum) said:Would there be a way to get frenchy & Stampie into a multi-faceted challenge that is three parts Chevy vs Jag and one part physical fitness? Like some year long challenge where they build a car and improve on their BMI's and whatever other ways we can argue about how in-shape they are?
EDIT: What if they both built for the Challenge and they both agreed on the car chassis to use? Like they both have to build A-body Malibu's, or XJ40's, or Dodge Darts with their engine of choice?
What would it cost Stempie to travel from Florida to Minnesota and back? That's the obstacle.
I'm sure I could build a competitive Jaguar for budget money. As I'm sure Stempie could build a budget Camaro or Corvette.
Since wheel to wheel racing isn't allowed during SCCA's track night racing. Stempie could treat it like just a 4 mile long autocross for 20 laps or so. It would be less unfair to Stempie.
I know I don't want to put the effort and money into a one event car just to settle an argument. I doubt Stempie would either. I'm sure he'd like to get some additional usage out of it.
Just to throw this out there. An engine build really is the root test. Either of us can then use said engine build in whatever way we want afterwards. Why not do a dyno if we have a no nitrous rule? It simplifies everything and the budget limit would prevent exotic stuff that would make it a dyno queen.
Haha he called you Stempie.
Stampie (FS) said:In reply to frenchyd :
I'm formulating what I think are fair rules in my head but as far as your trying to make it "affordable" that''s exactly why we have a budget limit. I'm still thinking but I'm leaning towards a $1000 limit on full Challenge budget rules. The Challenge budget rules makes it easy because they're already there and they've been tweaked through the years to take care of shenanigans. Plus you want to build a race car for whatever use you have. I build for the Challenge so it makes no sense for me to build a full car just to kick your old overweight behind with my slightly younger overweight behind.
I never directly asked this. You're willing to build a car, drive from Florida and back, just to kick my fat butt?
pres589 (djronnebaum) said:Haha he called you Stempie.
Shhhhh ... He's elderly.
frenchyd said:pres589 (djronnebaum) said:Would there be a way to get frenchy & Stampie into a multi-faceted challenge that is three parts Chevy vs Jag and one part physical fitness? Like some year long challenge where they build a car and improve on their BMI's and whatever other ways we can argue about how in-shape they are?
EDIT: What if they both built for the Challenge and they both agreed on the car chassis to use? Like they both have to build A-body Malibu's, or XJ40's, or Dodge Darts with their engine of choice?
What would it cost Stempie to travel from Florida to Minnesota and back? That's the obstacle.
I'm sure I could build a competitive Jaguar for budget money. As I'm sure Stempie could build a budget Camaro or Corvette.
Since wheel to wheel racing isn't allowed during SCCA's track night racing. Stempie could treat it like just a 4 mile long autocross for 20 laps or so. It would be less unfair to Stempie.
I know I don't want to put the effort and money into a one event car just to settle an argument. I doubt Stempie would either. I'm sure he'd like to get some additional usage out of it.
I love the idea of both of you building actual cars and then going to the Challenge and seeing what you would do with an entire car and not just loading an engine on a dyno. I think it would be a lot more entertaining and be more interesting for, say, magazine readers to get into. Grudge Match! Not just competitive dyno plots to compare. And it would be more interesting from a "hey, I know where there's a Volare just like they built, and now all I need to copy frenchy's success with his Aspen is to find a nice Jag v12..." standpoint.
You all do whatever or don't do whatever, I'm just trying to show how to this could be fleshed out.
frenchyd said:Stampie (FS) said:In reply to frenchyd :
I'm formulating what I think are fair rules in my head but as far as your trying to make it "affordable" that''s exactly why we have a budget limit. I'm still thinking but I'm leaning towards a $1000 limit on full Challenge budget rules. The Challenge budget rules makes it easy because they're already there and they've been tweaked through the years to take care of shenanigans. Plus you want to build a race car for whatever use you have. I build for the Challenge so it makes no sense for me to build a full car just to kick your old overweight behind with my slightly younger overweight behind.
I never directly asked this. You're willing to build a car, drive from Florida and back, just to kick my fat butt?
Sure I'm a road trip groupie.
Stampie (FS) said:Just to throw this out there. An engine build really is the root test. Either of us can then use said engine build in whatever way we want afterwards. Why not do a dyno if we have a no nitrous rule? It simplifies everything and the budget limit would prevent exotic stuff that would make it a dyno queen.
Putting an engine on a dyno isn't going to prove my basic statement. That a Jaguar V12 is an excellent engine for road racing. While being very affordable.
Besides I'm sure you've seen how easy it is to alter numbers on a dyno. Not just atmospheric inputs but technique and the dyno itself.
You're down at sea level. I'm up here as the source of three major rivers that flow downhill to the Gulf to Hudson's bay and the Great Lakes.
Stampie (FS) said:frenchyd said:Stampie (FS) said:In reply to frenchyd :
I'm formulating what I think are fair rules in my head but as far as your trying to make it "affordable" that''s exactly why we have a budget limit. I'm still thinking but I'm leaning towards a $1000 limit on full Challenge budget rules. The Challenge budget rules makes it easy because they're already there and they've been tweaked through the years to take care of shenanigans. Plus you want to build a race car for whatever use you have. I build for the Challenge so it makes no sense for me to build a full car just to kick your old overweight behind with my slightly younger overweight behind.
I never directly asked this. You're willing to build a car, drive from Florida and back, just to kick my fat butt?
Sure I'm a road trip groupie.
OK. Fair enough.
if you want a $1000 limit on the engine I'm OK with that. How do we decide how much I have in my engine to start with? I paid $500 for my Jag (with a running engine) and have receipt to prove that.
The 3 spare engines I have were freebes I pulled from rusty cars.
Stampie (FS) said:pres589 (djronnebaum) said:Haha he called you Stempie.
Shhhhh ... He's elderly.
Oops Sorry Stampie !
Stampie (FS) said:In reply to frenchyd :
I'll come to you. Shelby didn't make Enzo come to America so he could kick his behind.
Good one, Carroll
frenchyd said:Stampie (FS) said:frenchyd said:Stampie (FS) said:In reply to frenchyd :
I'm formulating what I think are fair rules in my head but as far as your trying to make it "affordable" that''s exactly why we have a budget limit. I'm still thinking but I'm leaning towards a $1000 limit on full Challenge budget rules. The Challenge budget rules makes it easy because they're already there and they've been tweaked through the years to take care of shenanigans. Plus you want to build a race car for whatever use you have. I build for the Challenge so it makes no sense for me to build a full car just to kick your old overweight behind with my slightly younger overweight behind.
I never directly asked this. You're willing to build a car, drive from Florida and back, just to kick my fat butt?
Sure I'm a road trip groupie.
OK. Fair enough.
if you want a $1000 limit on the engine I'm OK with that. How do we decide how much I have in my engine to start with? I paid $500 for my Jag (with a running engine) and have receipt to prove that.
The 3 spare engines I have were freebes I pulled from rusty cars.
If we’re road racing I want a $1000 limit on the whole car Challenge rules recoup allowed.
If you want to list what we have on hand I have a $150 SBC, $450 BBC, $150 Type 75 Lotus Elite rolling chassis, and a $260 Nissan 350Z All with bill of sales
Ok let me list what I won’t agree to just in case these are show stoppers.
I wont agree to using any particular car or truck. I want unlimited options for my build platform.
I wont agree to a minimum weight.
Stampie (FS) said:SVreX (Forum Supporter) said:Stampie (FS) said:The Challenge budget rules makes it easy because they're already there and they've been tweaked through the years to take care of shenanigans.
I really disagree with this. The current rules allow for FAR more shenanigans than the old rules ever did.
I think they are a big mess.
I'm willing throw out self trade. That removes most of the BS.
Darn! That just added 2 carburetors to my build. I'd planed on using the carb manifold I already have in exchange for the fuel injection manifold. Now I'll have to retain that. Weld a plate on the face of the manifold to take Three 1 & 1/2 inch SU's instead of the 2 inch SU's I have.
In reply to Stampie (FS) :
There has to be a minimum weight. It's simple. Power to weight.
As far as a particular car. I'm sure you can get a Chevy down to 3000 pounds. We are racing Jaguar versus Chevy aren't we?
I've got my molds for a Jaguar XKE. But wasn't really looking to put that much effort into it.
My suggestion...
Since neither of you is gonna play in the other's sandbox, I suggest you both have to do both. Frenchy will build a $2000 Challenge car and bring it to Gainesville, then both cars will compete on the road course of Frenchy's choice.
Transport costs will be covered by donations from forum members. I will start by contributing $100.
frenchyd said:yupididit said:SVreX (Forum Supporter) said:You guys can't measure engine against engine on the track. That's measuring car against car. (Or maybe driver against driver)
But on an engine dyno tho... lol
What do you prove on a dyno? Some flash number made with a big nitrous Jet ? Cute.. hold that for 30 minutes or so and you might have something. That's basically drag racing. I did that, once, yawn! You can pretty much replicate that on just about any freeway on ramp. Just push on the pedal.
Road racing you do that many times a lap plus maximum braking and cornering at maximum speed. 14 times a lap for 20 laps or so.
Was talking about comparing engine vs engine. Not car vs car + driver vs driver. Gotta read what I quoted, Sir.
Stampie (FS) said:frenchyd said:Stampie (FS) said:In reply to frenchyd :
I'm formulating what I think are fair rules in my head but as far as your trying to make it "affordable" that''s exactly why we have a budget limit. I'm still thinking but I'm leaning towards a $1000 limit on full Challenge budget rules. The Challenge budget rules makes it easy because they're already there and they've been tweaked through the years to take care of shenanigans. Plus you want to build a race car for whatever use you have. I build for the Challenge so it makes no sense for me to build a full car just to kick your old overweight behind with my slightly younger overweight behind.
I never directly asked this. You're willing to build a car, drive from Florida and back, just to kick my fat butt?
Sure I'm a road trip groupie.
I'll help with whatever driving you need to do if the timing is right. Lol
I'm about halfway between you two. Send me both cars and I'll take them out to NCM for back to back testing. The track manager is a friend and I'm sure we could get GRM to write it up for publicity.
Heck, if you can get them under $1000 each we'll run them in the King Of The Heap series this winter which uses a combination of autocross, drag race, and road course.
frenchyd said:Putting an engine on a dyno isn't going to prove my basic statement. That a Jaguar V12 is an excellent engine for road racing. While being very affordable.
Sorry Frenchy. I'm calling you out on this.
The first time you mentioned road racing in this thread was on page 5, after dozens of posts about engines. You were not talking about cars or road racing.
I don't mind changing it to cars, but this thread was clearly about the inherent value of a big block Chevy vs a Jag v12.
Now when are you two girls gonna get off the couch and start this thing?
Stampie vs Frenchy at BOTH the Challenge AND a road course of Frenchy's choice. Forum members pay the transport costs. The drags in Gainesville will suffice for the hp test.
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