British car hobby concerns

Next month we have the British Motor Trade Association annual convention, a gathering of those involved in the British car industry: manufacturers, distributors, shops, magazines, insurance companies, etc. It's become a great way to network, share ideas and discuss ways to make the world a better place to live.

So, any ideas, concerns or questions from the peanut gallery?

After finding a solution for the common cold and world peace, can you ask them to take a greater interest in LBC's other than the MGBs and Jaguars? You can build them from parts off the shelves. I would hope that they would take interest preserving other marques as well.

(Like Rootes autos for example....) (No selfish motivation here.....)

Series6 wrote: I would hope that they would take interest preserving other marques as well. (Like Rootes autos for example....) (No selfish motivation here.....)

Agreed

Somebody needs to buy TVR from that spoiled Russian rich kid!

How is the British Heritage shell program (Midgets, MGBs, Minis shells, etc) doing financially? Is there any thought to taking any of the new shells and running a small line of turn-key "new/old" Minis, MGBs, etc.

Will BMW continue to build new MINIs in the UK?

What is the concensus on the "Modern Gentleman"? (I can almost hear the howling already) Will anyone accept these cars as MGs?

What is the status of the Triumph and Healey namebrand?

Has there been any work on the "new" Z4-based Healey 3000?

At least six years ago Tata offered up a "new design" for the MG Midget? Has that died entirely?

Nah, you don't really need to resurrect TVR: http://www.almellingsportscars.com/

IIRC Al Melling is the guy who designed the engines for the recent TVR and they are supposedly pretty good (TVR supposedly 'productionised' them, which allegedly caused some of the well-document reliability issues).

I assume most of the suggestions offered are in jest. BMTA members are primarily small companies that have to make wise business decisions before developing and tooling up for a new product or expanding/changing their current business model. And while many of them might have the technical capability to build complete cars, I doubt any one of them would care to deal with the headaches of producing and selling complete turnkey new/old British cars. But I think they would be receptive to new product suggestions where the potential volume would justify development costs. (The new product wish list topic was discussed in this forum a few months ago). I own a Spitfire. The Spitfire gearbox isn’t that great. How about a reasonably priced conversion kit that uses a newer replacement gearbox? (not the over-priced conversion kits that use a 25 year old Toyota ‘box or European Ford ‘box that are practically nonexistent in North America) There are a lot of Spitfires out there so the potential sales volume should justify development if it’s properly engineered, the price is right and the gearbox can be sourced from an easy to find donor. I’ll even offer a target price: I think a lot of Spitfire enthusiasts would be willing to pay $500 for a conversion kit excluding the cost of a used gearbox.

Gary wrote: I assume most of the suggestions offered are in jest. BMTA members are primarily small companies that have to make wise business decisions before developing and tooling up for a new product or expanding/changing their current business model. And while many of them might have the technical capability to build complete cars, I doubt any one of them would care to deal with the headaches of producing and selling complete turnkey new/old British cars. But I think they would be receptive to new product suggestions where the potential volume would justify development costs. (The new product wish list topic was discussed in this forum a few months ago). I own a Spitfire. The Spitfire gearbox isn’t that great. How about a reasonably priced conversion kit that uses a newer replacement gearbox? (not the over-priced conversion kits that use a 25 year old Toyota ‘box or European Ford ‘box that are practically nonexistent in North America) There are a lot of Spitfires out there so the potential sales volume should justify development if it’s properly engineered, the price is right and the gearbox can be sourced from an easy to find donor. I’ll even offer a target price: I think a lot of Spitfire enthusiasts would be willing to pay $500 for a conversion kit excluding the cost of a used gearbox.

I second this. A bunch of Spitfires were made so there should be good demand. Also, a differential conversion kit would be nice.

I am also concerned about the poor quality of some of the parts that are available now. ie synchros that are too thick. I assume everthing is made in China or India these days, because the quality seems to be slipping. Some parts are labeled to a "Product of the UK", but they were not mmanufactured in England.

spitfirebill wrote:

Gary wrote: I assume most of the suggestions offered are in jest. BMTA members are primarily small companies that have to make wise business decisions before developing and tooling up for a new product or expanding/changing their current business model. And while many of them might have the technical capability to build complete cars, I doubt any one of them would care to deal with the headaches of producing and selling complete turnkey new/old British cars. But I think they would be receptive to new product suggestions where the potential volume would justify development costs. (The new product wish list topic was discussed in this forum a few months ago). I own a Spitfire. The Spitfire gearbox isn’t that great. How about a reasonably priced conversion kit that uses a newer replacement gearbox? (not the over-priced conversion kits that use a 25 year old Toyota ‘box or European Ford ‘box that are practically nonexistent in North America) There are a lot of Spitfires out there so the potential sales volume should justify development if it’s properly engineered, the price is right and the gearbox can be sourced from an easy to find donor. I’ll even offer a target price: I think a lot of Spitfire enthusiasts would be willing to pay $500 for a conversion kit excluding the cost of a used gearbox.

I second this. A bunch of Spitfires were made so there should be good demand. Also, a differential conversion kit would be nice. I am also concerned about the poor quality of some of the parts that are available now. ie synchros that are too thick. I assume everthing is made in China or India these days, because the quality seems to be slipping. Some parts are labeled to a "Product of the UK", but they were not mmanufactured in England.

Yes, now we're on topic. BMTA includes big suppliers like Moss and Victoria British as well as other wholesalers and manufacturers. It also includes the shops that service and restore our cars. While it doesn't include MG, Jaguar's official parts arm is involved.

However, it's the specific feedback that really helps. Someone is selling bad synchros? What application? Who sold them? In the past, there was no great way to get that feedback back to the ones who are building, importing or distributing the parts. This where the BMTA has made progress. Bad part? Who? What's wrong? Communication has led to several redesigns and fixes, so that's progress. Has it eliminated every bad part? No, but we're just getting started.

As far as Sunbeam parts, what specifically is needed? Kip has been adding Sunbeam parts to his catalog. Are there other parts in need?

Give me a specific list, and I'll walk it up the mountain.

David,

I'll be glad to make up a good list but right off the top, how about rear leaf spring sets? Pretty basic stuff. Off the top I can't think of anyone who still offers them. (Correct me if I'm wrong.) That's one reason I went with a 4 link and coil overs on my new project.

David,

I just posted the question on the SAOCA site and hope to have a good list for you in a few days.

Thanks.

I'll be glad to make up a good list but right off the top, how about rear leaf spring sets? Pretty basic stuff. Off the top I can't think of anyone who still offers them. (Correct me if I'm wrong.) That's one reason I went with a 4 link and coil overs on my new project.

For a Tiger? Victoria British lists them, or are we talking about something else?

http://www.victoriabritish.com/icatalog/sun/full.aspx?Page=43

And yes, specific recommendations are appreciated. Keep those cards and letters coming--Tigers, MG, Triumph, Jag, etc. I get a few minutes to talk before the group, so I'll use it to run down a wish list.

Hiding in plain site. I bozo'd that one. I recall them not being available for awhile.

So the Spitfire could benefit from a better trans...and a Subaru diff conversion kit...how about a engine too while we're at it?

I'm actually half-serious. If someone would make a reasonably priced kit to re-power a Spit with something very common, reliable and would double the power output, I think a lot of Spitfires could be turned into affordable Factory 5 competitors. Sort of a kit car without all the legal hurdles and expensive fiberglass finishing.

I know, I'm dreaming.

why can't Spitfire owners buy the rubber gaskets under the turn signal lenses separately? MG guys and such can, but not Spitfire owners. Spitfire owners have to buy the complete lamp assembly to get that gasket.

Why can't Spitfire owners buy rebuild kits or at least the boot for the CV joint on the driveshaft of later Spitfires? You can get it with a new driveshaft.

Why are the rubber parts for the most part so much worse than the original. Not simply in appearance, but in the quality of the rubber itself. Door seals and such tend to break apart in less than a year.

Why are british electrical connectors so hard to find? They aren't compatable with generic bullet connectors.

When I was rebuilding a 1500 Spitfire differential, I could only find one size washer that goes on the rounded side of the sun and planet gears. And it was way too thick. There used to be a whole selection.

ddavidv wrote: So the Spitfire could benefit from a better trans...and a Subaru diff conversion kit...how about a engine too while we're at it? I'm actually half-serious. If someone would make a reasonably priced kit to re-power a Spit with something very common, reliable and would double the power output, I think a lot of Spitfires could be turned into affordable Factory 5 competitors. Sort of a kit car without all the legal hurdles and expensive fiberglass finishing. I know, I'm dreaming.

Yea, I'm dreaming too. Actuallly the 1147 and 1296 are decent engines. Its the 1500 that pukes it guts. I've often wondered if lighter rods and pistons would help things.

Apparently no engine swaps into a Spitfire simply, but I've been craving a Toyota or Suzuki twin cam in one.

foxtrapper wrote: Why are british electrical connectors so hard to find? They aren't compatable with generic bullet connectors.

The Brit bullets are a different size (as you have found out). These guys should have the correct size connectors and I think they ship abroad: http://www.vehicle-wiring-products.eu/VWP-onlinestore/home/homepage.php

No connection apart from being a customer there. If they got the connectors you want and they won't ship them to you PM me and we'll see if we can sort out something.

So, any more specific requests and concerns regarding parts? This group generally attracts the biggies in our world, including Moss, Victoria British and Engel Imports. Here's a chance to be heard.

Id love to see some disk brake conversions(front and rear) and maybe some front brake 4 pot kits like Willwood or Brembro.

Id also think an affordable Fuel Inj. kit would sell well.

I think the manufactures need to look at the quality of the pieces parts...Rubber, chrome dodads, and hardware in general. Its too damn hard to keep rebuilding stuff after a year 'cause the rubber keeps dryrotting. So to wrap it up in a phrase:

DROP THE CHEAP CHINESE PRODUCED CRAP!

Leo

There’s nothing wrong with Chinese-produced products, per se. The resulting product depends on a U.S. buyer and the overseas supplier agreeing on the quality required for the price paid. The company I work for sources parts from China for the precision machines we build. It allows us to stay in business in a competitive market. There might be initial problems with quality but once the Chinese sources understand the requirements they are capable of producing acceptable parts at a very good price. I think the problem is that many U.S. companies sourcing parts or products from China don’t work with the suppliers to get to that point, either through manufacturing ignorance or simply trying to get the absolute cheapest price. They accept what’s supplied, not even recognizing if it’s good or bad, and pass it along to the consumer. So maybe the message that David can present to the BMTA is if they’re going to sell Chinese supplied parts, make sure they put the effort into the sourcing process to insure the quality we demand.

I agree with Gary. And another friend who worked extensively with Far East suppliers basically said hte same thing: they can produce excellent quality parts, but you have to make sure they understand that's what you want and are willing to pay a little more for it.

I have also heard about issues with the quality of aftermarket syncros, although not from any specific supplier. Regardless, it seems to be an issue that needs investigating.

I would say that there needs to be a shift regarding quality vs. price. Especially with historically inexpensive to fix cars like the MGB and Spitfire. These are not really cheap cars bought by college kids they once were. They are entry-level classics and the folks buying them are generally willing to spend a little money on them, regardless of how cheap the part in question may have been when the car was newer.

BoxheadTim wrote:

foxtrapper wrote: Why are british electrical connectors so hard to find? They aren't compatable with generic bullet connectors.

The Brit bullets are a different size (as you have found out). These guys should have the correct size connectors and I think they ship abroad: http://www.vehicle-wiring-products.eu/VWP-onlinestore/home/homepage.php No connection apart from being a customer there. If they got the connectors you want and they won't ship them to you PM me and we'll see if we can sort out something.

Don't know why you would need to go so far afield. Try:

http://www.britishwiring.com/

Right here in the good ol' us of a. Seems to be they should be a member of BMTA if they are not.