Classics and autocross

I think we may have discussed this before, but what the heck. I'm eating lunch and done checking the news.

Most autocross grids are full of newer cars--Miatas, Civics, Subarus, Mustangs, etc. Any interest in taking some older cars autocrossing? If so, what's stopping everyone? And what can we do to help get more people involved?

I'm going to autocross one of my Spitfires if I can ever get around to installing seat belts and a roll bar. The big problem is the lack of a decent tire.

Lots of fun, but lots of chasing the car too keep it all happy.

That said after racing everything else is boring

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mgAJhpeb3Kw

I love the gentle competition of an autocross even if I'm not running for a trophy position. When I get a genuine classic of my own, I can't wait to scare some cones with it.

Autocross appeals to me because you're able to drive the car at 10/10ths effort. On track, you've got hard barriers and a genuine risk of writing off a car. Autocross, on the other hand, is much more forgiving. A spin or other driving error is usually only penalized by time, not bent metal.

Of course, big track events are MUCH more exciting.

In reply to David S. Wallens:

I've wanted to try it with my Mustang for a while, but the stock power steering is so squirrely that I don't see the point. I've upgraded the suspension and brakes, I just need to find time to install the rack and pinion steering I have before I try it. I also have a T-5 to replace the autotragic, but that wouldn't stop me from trying it.

Sunbeam autocross

I did it once with my Sunbeam and it was a blast even though i had tires that gripped like they were covered in oil. I recently got new tires, and theres another one in about 2 weeks im going to try to go to. I had to upgrade to 15 inch rims and tires to get something good. It was a lot more fun than I thought it would be.

I'm looking forward to autocrossing my TR4A this spring. Andre, you GT6 sounds awesome!

There are a few that show up in the Philly region:

a 76 Spitfire in FSP who is a recent transplant from the west coast where he autocrossed the car a lot.

a driver-quality restored '73 911 in Stock run by the original owner. The amusing part is he drives the car from northern NJ down to events on his Hoosier A6's; "where would I put a jack and wheels in a 911?"

When I had a '78 Spit 6, I autocrossed it... however, it wasn't much fun. The nose-heaviness of a Spit-6 combined with a raked suspension made for a car with some nasty handling traits. Crappy HTR200 tires didn't help either.

I've joked about autocrossing the g/f's nice 1800ES, although the heavy steering on that car would be interesting... and I have this fear of polished Nardi spokes chopping my fingers off. That car can be a handful on moderately twisty roads.

As far as autocrossing her Spitfire, I seriously have doubts about the car lasting the day... mainly the rear differential and axles. Maybe after a CV-joint/GT6 conversion...

Recently, I've been having a day-dream of building my crusty 1800ES into an E-Mod car... although chances are, it would end up as a Volvo in appearance only.

I auto-x my BGT, and there's a 69 911S, a TR6, an X1/9, a 914, sometimes a TR8, an Alfa GTV, an late 60's Camaro, and a Cobra replica, which I guess doesn't count so much.

I'm going on Halloween, so I'll take lots of pics.

Now a days I dont think there is a good reason not to. Stock parts as well as 'go fast' parts are so easy to get.

I think the biggest reason is that most of the owners are old people who dont want to sport their sports car...Just cruise around, as well as the spoke polisher crowd that just walk around and point out whats wrong with other peoples car.

Leo

I autocrossed my Mini for a couple seasons. It was really fun, but I haven't run the last two seasons.

In reply to TJ:

Yeah TJ, keep waiting for you to come out. Someone else local autocrossed a classic Mini last month. He needs some competition.

I haven't brought out the Opel GT either so I'm guilty also. The GT doesn't have anti-sway bars and has old tires I haven't got around to replacing yet. So competitive? Nah, but might be fun anyway. Like I'm a competitive driver anyway.............not!

Here in Vegas this past weekend our Autocross had 71 240Z (the driver usually makes the top ten), a Porsche 914, 69 Camaro, Lola T540, 78 Civic and a couple of 80's Vettes. I ran my Datsun 1200 earlier this year but it was mostly to see how the 39mm Keihin FCR Flatslide carbs worked at low speed stuff. It's tough for older cars to compete with new ones given the wider track and other improvements but I don't think that's what running you're classic is about. We used to have a regular in a TR3 a few years back. In the last decade I've run my Volvo 142, Plymouth Valiant, Datsun B210 and 510. The Plymouth was interseting.

      Tom

I autocrossed my Mini twice. With the 848 and no torque it's pretty slow. I kind of felt I was holding up the entire run group with it. When I replaced the battery last year the hold-down no longer fits so it won't pass tech. I wouldn't mind trying it again on a fast/open course where I can just steer through the turns and not need any power. Truthfully, my E30 BMW is so much more fun to drive I'd rather take it.

Agreed you can push yourself and be very safe.

But your worried about a wall? ;)

I really want to try the FIAT out at a autocross session, but the logistics involved are too great right now.

Tom Heath wrote: Autocross appeals to me because you're able to drive the car at 10/10ths effort. On track, you've got hard barriers and a genuine risk of writing off a car. Autocross, on the other hand, is much more forgiving. A spin or other driving error is usually only penalized by time, not bent metal. Of course, big track events are MUCH more exciting.

Thanks.

Header and twin exhaust.

The car has a 4:11 diff so in some sections I've got to either hold back or go faster.

It would be fun to try an event or two again now that I have some track time behind me.

boeingpilot wrote: I'm looking forward to autocrossing my TR4A this spring. Andre, you GT6 sounds awesome!

ddavidv wrote: Truthfully, my E30 BMW is so much more fun to drive I'd rather take it.

Interesting... I have not found my 325is to be a fun autocrosser... and considering that was the main reason I bought the car, it's now a big lump in my garage with no purpose. Nor do I really find the car all that much fun to drive on the street.

Part of the reason, for me at least, is the limitations on tire selection. Back in day, the Lotus Elan was dominate in A/Stock. I can't hold a candle to that today. I just can't get really good, sticky DOT tires in 13" or 14" anymore.

Yeah thats why I went to 15's on the GT6...

Even that selection is limited.

If I can ever finish the 240 I'm planning on autocrossing it. The problem as I see it, is that I say I only want to go have fun, but reality sets in and I want to win. Classics tend to drift down the competitiveness scale as faster cars are introduced, so I'm sure I'll end up selling it and moving to a more modern car, or stop autocrossing it and look for other venues to have fun.

I always say that won't happen, but it usually does. Interestingly the 240 is not the most fun autocrosser out there. You have to grab it by the throat and drag it kicking and screaming around the track, where I've always preferred the delicate balance of a mid engine car.

We'll see how it ends up. I'd really like to see a class for classic cars, maybe a single class with a PAX.

Try finding a lot of selection in a 10" tire. I actually have a set of Hossier slicks that were made to be Formula 500 front tires. They were about $70 a piece on a closeout sale and they stick like glue. In the silly SCCA classing system it puts me into G Prepared, but that's ok. If I ever want to take off my bumpers, remove my backseat and window glass I'd still be legal.

Ive seen more 10 inch competition tires than 13 inch competition tires.

I don't think there's anything stopping them per se. Just that there's a whole lot more newer cars on the road than there are old classics. Probably a whole lot of folk with a nifty classic are quite leery of thrashing it too hard and breaking it. As compared with the ding-a-ling kid and his ricy Honda Civic.

I do think a lot of people get stopped in general from autocrossing because it's frequently not newbie friendly and takes quite a time commitment of that day. Don't know of an easy fix for those things.

I found that as well. No vintage love.

Most of the people would rather me bring the MazdaSpeed out over the GT6.

But FWD vs RWD. Geee let me see.

I know that my X1/9's design is quickly nearing the 40 year old mark, but I still tend to think of it as a modern car with the electronic FI and ignition. It just starts and goes. It's at a disadvantage with its emissions-strangled 75 hp, compared to the more modern cars out there. But it's still fun to autocross and time trial.

My 124 Coupe was only lightly breathed on in the performance sense, mainly a set of Koni reds and slightly wider tires, the rest being original. With a stock-like interior, the one time I did autocross it, I was sliding all over the seat. The seat reproductions have zero bolsters. But it was still fun mutilating a few cones.