eBay Motors Changes Format Again!!

Those idiots at eBay are at it again. They keep trying to revamp the eBay motors site to make it...well...shittier. Anyway, they just pushed out the new version again.

You can switch back to classic mode in the options on the new page.

Personally, I severely dislike the new format and would like them to stopping messing around with it.

As much as I bitch about eBay it is a good place to find stuff. It makes me angry that they want to monkey with it.

Be sure to check your login and see if you like it. If you are like me and can't stand it, post on their forums and tell them so. Also, copy and paste this to your favorite old car forums. Share this information so we can stop them before it's too late!

What do you hate about it (and don't say 'everything')?

I couldn't find the options/classic thing to do an A/B comparison, but my initial response was mostly favorable. Pretty clean, fairly well organized, modern. I have some quibbles with the heirarchy, and I think it's REALLY stupid to have a sign-in/register box when I'm already logged in, but I don't see any terrible problems with it.

As someone who's been on the other side of these complaints, it seems often people hate it simply because it's different. If you ask what they dislike about it, they can't answer.

And, of course, you'll never make everyone happy. Nor should you try to.

Allright, played with it some more... the filtering is better. I run into problems searching for, say, BMW 2002, as I bring up every 2002 BMW, but now I can find an easy way to hone in models, which is nice.

On the other hand, it says there's 33 2002s for sale, but won't show me any.

I agree that I was frustrated at first but then the filtering is much better. I can search for "4 door sedans with manual transmission within 250 miles of my zip code and under $2000." Before, I could only search specific models on the one hand, or for a general search, I'd have to accept that I'd get plenty of pickup trucks thrown into the mix.

I'm getting used to it and I like it.

I don't like that you can't sort the lists as easily anymore, by year or mileage etc.

I also miss the easy to use drop downs to search for a different make of car on the left had bar. That was my favorite thing to do search by make sort by year ascending and look at the cool old cars.

I guess I will have to bend the new version to do my bidding.

Who searches like that? I want all 2 door coupes with auto trans within 100 miles? People search by make and model.

Also, try doing parts searches. See what you find. Compare the number of parts you find and the categories that they stick them in.

Here is what I don't understand: Google is the undisputed king of search engines. You don't see them putting all kinds of categorical criteria in their search fields do you?

.ps you should be able to switch back to classic off of the main Motors page. There is an options button there that should give you the drop down.

Ok, I did a test.

Using the new version, I searched on Porsche 914 and got 599 matches. Using the old version 697.

There's 100 items difference or 15% (check my maths please). That's significant.

Kapt, I had much better luck searching by make and model (given my unusual query) tan I did with the old one. At least right up until the point it wouldn't show me any results. Ooopsy.

Google and Ebay have very different database models and hardware setups. I have absolutely no insider knowledge of what they're trying to do, but I suspect it involves tagging info to theoretically make it more easier for both humans and the database to bring it up quickly.

I never did find the options button.

And 15% is pretty significant... and bad. I wonder if there's a flaw in their algorithm, if there's just a big batch of auctions that haven't been converted, or what.

But I'll tell ya, those sorts of real-world examples are actually helpful to them. Way more so than page after page of "this sucks" with nothing quantifiable behind it (like I saw on the forums over there). If you go to them with those sorts of repeatable examples, you'll probably see some fixes.

If you go here: http://motors.shop.ebay.com/Cars-Trucks__

In the old version, you would see the list of makes along the left side of the screen. Now you have to go to the pop-up and pick from there. Extra work for no reason or benefit.

If you select a make from that pop-up, then you have to go and select models from another pop-up. More clicks.

On the new system, without typing in anything, see how many clicks you need to get to a volkswagen scirocco listing.

HINT: you can't, but there are a few for sale.

Oh, but I did find a Porsche 912 with a type 1 VW motor in it. Oh cool, a Camaro too!!

In theory, you should be able to do it in 2 or 3 clicks.

Click on cars and trucks, which brings out the a list of cars and trucks, slide down to VW. That's 1.

Then in the left column, either scirroco will be a common search, and it'll be there (second click), or it won't, in which case you'd have to click "more", then scirocco.

Unfortunately, "scirocco" wasn't an option under VW, so that kinda went belly up. I could get to 291 old-school Beetle listings in just two clicks though.

Tim,

My whole point is that the new site is needlessly complicated and less efficient.

It's one of those things where they have new guys that think they can do better than the old guys, but really can't. It's the same with Windows Vista.

Oh, and what do you see when you click more? I see 912, Camaro, Satellite, Riveria, A4 and Accord. How helpful is that?

I don't really agree... for me, and the way I search, I think I like it more. There's definitely some bugs that need to be quashed, but I see more paths to get where I want to go, more directly... you should have seen the horrific query strings I would end up building trying to find some things with the old system.

I see a lot of improvement in it, I really do. Most of the complaints I'm seeing on their forums seem to be of the "who moved my cheese" variety.

Of course, there ARE bugs, and you've pointed several out. That's a wholly different thing. If they're not aware of those sorts of repeatable, real-world examples of bad behavior, they should be.

Is a VW Beetle being listed under Buick Riviera Ebay's fault, or the lister's fault? I dunno, but it definitely screws up the new system.

Why Scirocco doesn't show up under VW at all is also a problem.

And there's other problems too, I won't deny it. But I think I see where they're trying to go, and I don't think it's a bad place.

Altough personally, I dislike that the listings are now pushed below the fold on my 1280x800 laptop screen, but that's an unwinnable fight.

Yeah, well... try to even find a saved search. Nice. Not.

It's rubbish. Admit it. Defending the indefensible is a bit silly now isn't it? ;)

Classic Motorsports should seriously evaluate the ability to find old cars and parts in the new version versus the old version. Lord knows that we all rely on eBay to find parts and accessories for our little crocks.

The gauntlet is tossed.

Oh and there are no VW Squarebacks for sale either. I am looking at other makes now too. I did see an X1/9 under the Lancia section before too.

I guess if you are one of the 5 Scirocco sellers, and you paid your fees, it doesn't matter much that people can't find your car for sale. Grrr....

Sweet!!!

I found this with the Fiats!!!

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/HONDA-600n-micro-car-with-Isetta-tire-and-Fiat-500-tube_W0QQitemZ330204425824QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item330204425824

Seriously evaluating requires getting into usability testing with multiple users and goals, knowing what the design goals were, and quite a few other factors that are highly unlikely to come together.

You and I are just seeing it differently... I think it's different, mostly good, but undoubtedly flawed. Most (but not all) of the criticism I've seen has been of the "it sucks" variety, with little substance, which is pretty typical. People hate change.

On the other hand, it's obviously not working for you, and there's undoubtedly some pretty serious bugs still in place they're going to have to address. My grade? Not that anyone cares, but I'd give it a C.

For whatever it's worth, I'd give the previous one a C to. I like the new one better conceptually, and it works better for me personally, but quirks in the execution and just plain bugs are making it tough.

I know I wouldn't want to be ebay. There's a LOT of reasons things have to change, but every little change is affecting a whole lot of people, many of whom have a lot of dough riding on it.

Tim,

Seriously, why, as an eBayer, do I or you need to know the design goals? I don't know anything about the design goals on the door handle of a 2008 Mini Cooper. I just know if it works or not. As a consumer, it is that simple.

As Classic Car aficionados, we have somewhat unique needs and we like to look at all the other pretty rides that we don't own (yet). So devise a simple test. Pick out some parts, some cars, some model years and see if you can find the stuff with the new interface.

Who cares if its not scientific? If we car nuts were logical, we wouldn't own Saab Sonnets or Lotus Europas.

Represent brother, or I'll find Cordbell and make him spam the forums again (kidding, I have no relationship to that dude - lol).

I know the design goals of the door handle... to allow you to quickly and easily open the door. It's surprising, actually, how many door handles get it wrong (the excellent book "Design of Everyday Things" spends quite a bit of time on door handles).

For one to seriously do an overall evaluation of a site revamp, it helps tremendously to know what they were attempting to do, and why. Using your Mini analogy, if the 2009 removed the door handle altogether, and used some other mechanism for getting in the car. It would really help to know what they were going for.

You suggested CMS should do a serious evaluation, I was just giving a few reasons why I doubt it would happen. Even if it were to happen, I suspect you'd discover some people struggled finding what they were looking for, while others found it much more efficient. One of the things it seems you almost always find in usability testing is that no matter how obvious you think something is, lots of people do it some wholly different way. I suspect the reason it's more or less working for me, and I see improvment, while you're getting just the opposite, is that you and I use ebay in different ways.

It WOULD be fascinating to put you, me and 10 other people in a room, with 5 or 10 goals (find all '96 BMWs, or Saabs in your area, etc) and see how the different people honed in on that info. That's real usabiility testing, and I'd sure hope a company ebay's size did it, rather than just trust the geeks to know what's best.

I do agree with you, the listings are hosed with the new version. Things aren't showing up where they should, and are showing up where they shouldn't. But I suspect that's an issue in the database layer, not the new design. But even beyond that, there's several other bugs you and I have identified. There's no doubt it's got problems.

Now if you're asking if I think it was prudent to roll out design changes and database changes at the same time? No. I don't. Then again, despite the recent total overhaul of CMS, I personally prefer incremental changes when possible. A slight visual thing here, a new feature there, a database change where needed, while keeping a sense of continuity. There's been changes on Classic pretty much every day since the relaunch. Most folks haven't much noticed, which is a good thing.

There's a design term that basically means "staying out of the users way", but I can't remember it right now. It's early, and I'm cold.

Tim,

I understand your perspective, but I disagree with it. I tend to believe that people overthink things these days. KISS - Keep it Simple Stupid does hold water here.

Aside from all of this, here it what I "think" eBay is trying to do.

I think eBay is trying to reach out to non-car people to make it easier for them to buy a car on-line. They think that people will go to their site, and say "I need a 4 door sedan!" and actually search for 4 doors within 100 miles of them and pick a car from that list. This is utter nonsense. There is no way in hell that a non-car person is going to buy a used car over the internet like that. A car is the second biggest expenditure that most people make. They will want to drive it, kick the tires and be able to go back to the dealer when there is a problem. Therefore, my perception of their design goals fly in the face of everything I know about non-car people.

Now, if they had stated their design goals, like they should have, then this would not be conjecture. They haven't stated them, I believe, because people will think exactly what I have just written.

They are sacrificing (to some degree) their existing and loyal customer base to chase potential customers. Potential customers that aren't capable or comfortable buying a car online.

There ya' go. That's my take.

Aside from all of that, you, as an advocate of classic car-dom should be looking at the eBay changes through that prism. It does not matter what eBay wanted to accomplish, it only matters if those changes meet your needs as a classic car person. I can tell you that the pop-up windows to search by any of the criteria that they want to provide fail that test miserably IMO.

Get some coffee, it's your turn.

Maybe. There's a real possiblity you're right, and frankly, I don't know. I don't have eBays' market research, usability studies, eyetracking, site stats, and all the other stuff that I'm sure they have... or at least I sure HOPE they have.

As for keeping it simple, in many ways the new setup is considerably simpler and more direct. It all depends on how you use it and what the expected behavior is.

I do know there was a lot of room for improvement on the old setup, and I know the new setup has some serious flaws they need to fix.

I also know I REALLY wouldn't want to be them. No matter what they do, a large minority of people is going to hate it. Doesn't matter what it is.

Here's a funny story... a few years back one of the large sites - I think it was amazon, may have been ebay, may have been someone else - did a redesign. As part of that redesign they introduced a particular shade of yellow as a significant part in the new design. User base freaked out... HATED the yellow. Much wailing and gnashing of teeth ensued and eventually they backed down and put it back the way they had it before. But for various reasons they needed to make these changes. I can't remember why yellow was important, but it was in the big scheme of things. So over the course of months, they changed it, one shade at at time, until eventually it was exactly the yellow they wanted in the first place. And no one said a word.

Kapt,

As soon as you get to ebaymotors, click on "advanced search."

Problem solved.

Apart from that, I can see that EBM now has a much more robust search engine.

Now, why would a "car guy" search for "4 door sedans near me?" Because it filters out all of the car types I know I don't want or could not presently live with, but it also opens my eyes to new possibilities. I tend to get stuck in the rut of "Porsche 911," "Alfa Milano," "E36 M3," repeat. Wouldn't it be fun to grab a cheap, local car and play with it for a while? Why local? Because if I want it cheap, I don't want to pay more than it's worth to ship it, and I want the option of going to look at it.

On Ebay "classic" I could not do this search.

As for specific make/model searches, I just tried it again and confirmed that it is no more difficult than before. In fact, easier now that I'm used to the interface.

I'm sure you are partially correct about Ebay's intentions. They seem to want to appeal to the more occassional user, or the Dad looking for a kid's first car, or whatever. In that sense they've caught up with and maybe surpassed Edmunds with their search interface. Meanwhile, I don't think it's any more difficult for the die-hard.

A lot of my saved searches are broken. So that is still a problem.

Well, that would be frustrating. I didn't use that feature very much. I think I only had one and it is still there. I don't even use it anymore