I want the overdrives

Saginaw 3 speed w/overdrive for $50, although the seller says it needs a rebuild: http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/threads/saginaw-3-speed-overdrive-transmission.925215/ Said to fit 1955 through 1965.

Kenny_McCormic wrote:

Ian F wrote: I too have often wondered how difficult it would be to get a column shifter to operate a new 5 or 6 spd trans. There are some cars (and especially vans) where column shift woud be desired.

Alter the shifter on trans to mimic a FWD type trans shifter, add FWD cable shifter setup(or use marine control cables), modify column shift to accept cables, done.

Yes and no. The shift lever action of a T-5 doesn't really work the same way as any FWD trans I've seen. Not saying it wouldn't be possible, but the entire shifter plate of the T-5 would need to be re-thought and re-engineered. Maybe when I get around to reassembling the box of T-9 parts I have (similar shifter), I'll put more thought into it.

Regardless, a FWD shifter doesn't work the same as an old-school column shifter either, so that would be an entirely separate exercise. Those have more in common with the old style shifters where the linkage was on the side of the transmission.

VClassics wrote: That's a Laycock J-type OD, and they can be had for a lot less than $1K. The trouble is that they are not stand-alone, "bolt on with an adapter" type units. The transmission's output shaft is an integral part of making the OD work. I wouldn't really want to put V8 torque through one either.

If you can get them bolted up to a Model A with minimal fuss its not that much of a stretch in this application. Did not say it was cheap to do with the retrofit but there are many people in the classic car world using them.

I know the the triumph 2000 has compatible parts that can be had cheap as well.

The best way though at this point is rear gears. They are cheap, easy enough to calc out and if you go to high/low 50$ later and some eBay work and you are where you need to be.

Form Ford Barn Remove the universal of the rear of the trans .fit a N9 tractor coupler .solid mount the OD with a oil seal in the front . .cut you drive shaft and re spline it to Volvo .

In reply to Ian F:

Column shift T-56 is something I've put some thought into.

You'd cut the entire box off the T5(or extend the rod out the back), at which point one cable rotates the shaft(selects the gate) and the other pushes and pulls the shaft(engages the gears). If space on top of the trans were too tight you could even attach a small u joint and run the shaft down and to the side, then interface it with the cables.

The column would need to be modded to accept the gate/rotate cable, as this function was originally processed in the column. From the factory the column runs two rods, the R-1 rod and the 2-3 rod, you would fuse these and run the in/out cable with that, then figure out the rotate cable. This would be easier on the older style 3 on the tree rig where its an exposed rod shifter on top of the column.

Works just like a lot of FWD boxes, look at a Toyota corolla box/cable setup sometime and it will make more sense.

In reply to stuart in mn:

I wonder what the difference is between the pre-65 units and what I have (1966)...

Hungary Bill wrote: In reply to stuart in mn: I wonder what the difference is between the pre-65 units and what I have (1966)...

I thought about that after I posted, I was thinking your car was a 1965. I'm no expert at all but I think all the overdrive bits are in the tailshaft of the transmission, and you should be able to relocate the tailshaft to your existing transmission.

There are a couple Youtube videos about Saginaw overdrive transmissions that may help, here's one: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EHOFWuNcLXg

Looks like pre-'65 and post '65 are not interchangeable (started a thread on chevytalk)

In reply to Kenny_McCormic:

I'm familiar with the shifter set up in MINI's and VW's. There's one shaft on the trans that does the shifting. One cable rotates the shaft back and forth. The other lifts or lowers the shaft.

If a T-5 is similar to a BMW trans (also a single rail), then getting a cable to operate it would be possible. Just a matter of getting the cables to mimic the floor shifter.

Getting a column shifter to actuate the cables in the same manner... Hmm... I'm sure it's possible. Sure as hell it won't be easy or I'd have seen it done by now.

In reply to Ian F:

Now we're on the same page, single rail, that's the term I was after.

I suspect we've never seen it done because "hot rod" means floor shift, and those who really like 3 on the column, really like, THREE on the column(like those nutjobs at a certain board with a name rhyming with a cut of cured pork).

I've never gutted a manual column, so I can't tell you how hard it would be to run the gate cable, though I can't imagine its outside the realm of some simple machining and welding. The two axis of motion are definitely preserved right up until the end of the column where its split into the R-1 rod and the 2-3 rod, this is where you would need to get hacking.

From the looks of it, you'd have to cut a big rectangular hole in the column and add a cable to the tube that the shift lever interacts with. Running the cable parallel to the column. This would be the cable which rotates the transmission rail. The rotation of the tube is what would control the pulling in and out of the transmission rail, which can likely be gotten from one the original arms on the collumn, given some modification so it is always engaged. I imagine there's a nub in there that would need to be lengthened.

Gearvendors just uses a vintage style Laycock overdrive like a 60's healey or even Ferrari. I am not really a fan of the Laycock overdrive. It is an expensive, complicated and ridiculous workaround. I have rebuilt a few vintage british units and they aren't cheap to repair. For some reason the ones in Volvos tend to hold up better.

Hungary Bill wrote: . (sorry, no 700r4. I kind of dig the three on the tree)

I thought the same thing until I pulled my three on the tree and installed the T5. Having proper gears makes the car just come alive. Most of my fuel economy increase (which was significant) came from having proper 3rd and 2nd gears. I jumped up about 4-5mpg in town, not even in the range where the OD would come into play.

I've been told by someone who mounted up a T5 (or was it a T56?) that it was like adding 100hp.

But I still dig the column shift

Now! Kenny? Ian? If you guys keep this up I'm going to send you my car to use as a test bed.

When I was in Singapore the cab I was in had a 5-speed column shift... Dont remember what kind of vehicle it was though

Hungary Bill wrote: I've been told by someone who mounted up a T5 (or was it a T56?) that it was like adding 100hp.

It probably knocked my 0-60 time from 18 seconds to 11 or so.

It is a HUGE difference.

In reply to Kenny_McCormic:

Ok... I think I have a mental picture of how to make it work.

First, some verification: the pull-push action of the column shifter is essentially the same as the left-right action of a floor shift. Likewise, the up-down of the column shifter mimics the fore-aft movement on the floor. I'm judging this by the one column shift car I've driven: a '73 Saab 95 w/ a 4 spd. The shift pattern was the same as most typical Euro cars (R is up-left), just turned 90 degrees.

So... with that in mind, it shouldn't be too difficult to fabricate brackets at the base of the column to move cables when push/pulling/rotating a column shifter. Thus leaving the interior looking stock (a big plus for doing such a thing). Everything after that is a matter of getting the leverage ratios right so column lever "A" eventually moves shift rail "D" the correct amounts.

Of course, this would appeal to like 4 people in the entire country... Still... It does make me want to gather up a 5 spd transmission and a column shift assembly and mock something up.

I don't think mounting a FWD style shifter on the column would work very well. For one, it would end up as a huge, bulky thing. The shifter cables (no matter what, you'll need two) are not small and the ball-socket ends take up a lot of room. And you need a certain distance between the pivot point of the lever and where it connects to the cables. That's how some SSK work in MINIs - you add an extension to the base of the shifter under the car so that movement of the shift knob moves the cable end farther (changing the lever ratio). That distance (stock) is still quite a bit. For example, look at UUC shifters for BMW's. Same basic principle.

I only mention FWD apps because the cables would be the perfect length, saving lot vs. buying marine control cables, and you are effectively mimicking the setup most FWD cars use, just reversed(shiftet under the hood, trans under the floor). Using an actual FWD floor shifter mounted on the column would look asinine on anything besides a Cuban farm truck on its 5th repower.

In reply to Kenny_McCormic:

Ok. I thought that seemed a little out of left field.

I would pretty much assume custom cables would need to be made, although we may get lucky. The distance between the floor shifter and trans on a FWD isn't much different than the base of a steering column and where a T5 shifter would roughly be.

In reply to Ian F:

Precisely.

In reply to Kenny_McCormic:

Well, you're closer to Hungary Bill in WA than I am, so get to work.

Only if he makes making a column shifted T5 my full time job, which wouldn't be a bad one, come to think of it.

Though I wonder if the gearing in the saginaw 3 speed/od combo is set up well enough to split gears with it(should be strong enough behind a stovebolt 6), effectively making this whole conversation silly.

Doesn't look too bad http://macswebs.com/cddemo/67cd/etr/transmission/manual.html

You're hired!

Now, you'll have to fund your own move, benefits, and retirement all while getting paid by my undying gratitude.

So when can you start?

In reply to Hungary Bill:

As soon as the student debt bubble bursts.

If you hook up your current column shifter to the 1-2 and 3-4 arms on a 4-speed the reverse arm on the transmission could be operated by another lever/pedal/knob via a cable. It would be weird, but in actual use maybe not so bad, rowing the column for forward gears then tossing the column in neutral and push/pulling on another control for reverse.

And, once you get to a 4-speed then a Corvette 4+3 becomes another option for you.

What about adding engine mangement? swith to EFI... get your AFRs up... I'll bet a decently set up management system will boost mpg by 15-20%

In reply to oldopelguy:

I suppose you could run the reverse with push/pull solenoid. Also would make one hell of a driveline parking brake. Put it on a aircraft type covered switch for safety. At that point A833 OD would be pretty easy, assuming the flipped 3/4 arm isn't an issue, though you flip the arms on a column shift IIRC, so the rear arm would hang down, so no issues there.

oldeskewltoy wrote: What about adding engine mangement? swith to EFI... get your AFRs up... I'll bet a decently set up management system will boost mpg by 15-20%

I actually DO have a megasquirt 3, wideband, and HEI distributor sitting in a box in my basement that'd work for such a thing... but I can't bring myself to do it.

My current thought process on that is:

If I can make the EFI look like the Offenhauser tri-power then I'm game. If not then the 'squirt is going on another project.

I was thinking I could maybe adapt suzuki motorcycle throttle bodies to look like the tri-power. But really, it's not very high on my "want to do" list. I'd almost rather use the 3-Rochesters...

http://www.pattonmachine.com/ does a conversion to hide EFI bits in Z-S carbs. They may be game for the challenge of hiding them in something else.