It's getting time to consider re painting
I've done a fair bit of Lacquer with pretty good results. Won a few best of show which I think the paint had something to do with.
I've painted with 2 part but I hated it. The first time was not properly equipped and it came real close to being my last anything. I've painted some since but still don't like it.
While I've never basecoat clear coated a car I've done a few other things with OK results but it's still nasty stuff and you really need a great respirator.
I've watched a few cars done with film and it really looks safer and a whole lot less messy.
The car will be used in Vintage racing so it just needs to be respectable at 20 feet. Originality won't be really critical but cost is and time is a factor
oldtin
PowerDork
9/27/17 4:10 p.m.
Not even sure many suppliers sell lacquer anymore. There are still single stage paints that go on easy like an acrylic enamel or acrylic urethane. AU does require an activator, but easy to go on - can shoot pretty much straight from the can (very thin product) - no mixing other than activator. There is also an acrylic enamel that's a single stage - that takes a little mixing with reducer. Yes - you need a decent respirator - they both have cyanates in them. The PPG mtk ae and au products are considered fleet products - so they are budget friendly (about double the cost of tractor paint). It's what I put on my TR4 - cost about $300 with an epoxy primer, hi-build primer, AU paint and supplies.
In reply to oldtin : I still buy lacquer on line in any color I want most spray cans are lacquer because they dry so fast. That's the feature I like best. Fast dry, sand off any mistakes and spray another coat.
I hate enamels or anything that sprays like enamels. They take too long to dry and painting becomes a long drawn out affair rather than something you can do after supper and still get a good nights sleep
oldtin
PowerDork
9/27/17 5:24 p.m.
These are recoat in ten minutes, dry in an hour or less. But sounds like you already decided
For a race car I'd use acrylic enamel. Easy to touch up scratches and chips w/ an airbrush. Build up, wet sand down , buff and polish to blend. Airbrush saves on paint too FWIW. Measure paint, reducer and hardener w/ syringe in ML for ratios. Wouldn't use acrylic enamel on a DD or vehicle that lives outside tho, race car yes. BTDT.
I've done hundreds of BC/CC urethane paint jobs, big and small. It's the best way to go. You don't even have to get all the same "system" so long as you know what components to get.
Basecoat paint often needs a "reactive reducer" to mix and spray (and it mixes and sprays and dries just like lacquer and lacquer thinner), then the clearcoat uses a hardener and reducer (and flex additive if painting over fiberglass bodywork or urethane bumpers). Do not spray the basecoat for gloss, just go for even coverage. Go for gloss with the clear (though not too heavy as it's easy to get runs), then colorsand and buff after it cures for a showcar finish.
You can now get ready-to-spray waterborne basecoat that sprays and dries fast and easy, then use a normal clearcoat over the top. Way easier and better than lacquer, and lasts a lot longer.
Not really applicable to this conversation but I really don't like the look of bc/cc paint. I don't like it at all. I much prefer the look of a single stage paint.
Chris_V
UberDork
9/28/17 12:04 p.m.
Nick (Bo) Comstock said:
Not really applicable to this conversation but I really don't like the look of bc/cc paint. I don't like it at all. I much prefer the look of a single stage paint.
For solid colors, I tend to agree. But for metallic and pearls, no way, Jose. Has to have a clear on it. HATE all the old single stage metallic. Too easy to tiger stripe the metallic trying to get a glossy finish and if you colorsand and buff them to get rid of runs and orange peel, you end up sanding the color off the metallic flakes. Bad news. And of course, the single stage paints don't get any UV protection so they tend to dull out, blanch, and fade much easier than clear coated paints.
In reply to Chris_V : pretty hard to get away with pearls or metallics on a vintage car .
In reply to Nick (Bo) Comstock :
And any comments about Lacquers not holding up needs to come by my place. 43 years ago I painted my MG TD with Lacquer paint.
Ive driven it across country including through a desert windstorm and about 40 gagillion bugs. It's been vintage raced 40-50 times and still looks presentable.
One nice thing about lacquers is the ease you can do spot repairs. The few stone chips and battle scars could be sanded out and spot repaired. You don't need to do whole panels like base coat clear coat
In reply to Chris_V : base coatclear coat doesn't look original. There is a richness and depth to Lacquer that BCCC just can't duplicate.
As for durability please come and look at my MGTD 43 years ago I painted it. I've driven it in rain and snow across country and through a desert sandstorm. It's killed around 40 Gagillionbugs and been vintage raced since 1975 I've overheated my engine and blown scalding hot oil and water on it.
Still looks presentable Oh it's got nicks and scratches but an afternoon doing spot touch ups will get it show ready.
I've been painting cars for 40+ years. Started with lacquers on vintage car restoration. Modern urethanes are vastly better and can look just as good if not better than lacquers, and in general, in daily use, last a LOT longer with less work due to the chemical makeup of them. They also spray as good if not better than lacquers and you don't need to do any other work to them to get the deep gloss.
Lacquers dry by solvent evaporation, rather than having the chemical bonds crosslinked with a catalyst, like urethanes. This makes them chemically "softer" and more susceptible to chemical damage from things like gasoline. It also ironically makes them more brittle and prone to lifting, cracking and crazing from age and UV damage.
In reply to Chris_V :that's interesting to know. How about costs and skill required?
My first Lacquer job I won awards even though I wasn't particularly good at spraying . It was just easy to sand off mistakes in localized area and then touch up. Color sanding and buffing made the paint job not my ability to spray.
As for durability I did everything wrong. I put on at least 15-20 coats but each coat was diluted with more and more Lacquer thinner.
Yet today there is no flaking cracking or crazing.
I've done 2 part paint jobs that started to look tough before the season was even finished. Every time then I'd try a different brand or formula and eventually went back to Lacquer.
Then as base coat clear coat became the norm I tried that. A couple of jobs proved I should never paint stuff , so I hired it done and accepted the delay, pressure to finish work to get it to the painter on schedule, sub par work for above the going rate etc. ( not saying painters are any worse than the rest of us, just that I hate to lose control) sorry for the long rant
I'd love to know costs and skills required to do good work plus what brands are best value etc
In reply to oldtin : so far you're the only one who's spoken about costs or brands. Thank you
I'm anxious to hear about film. Is that something only the Nascar teams are doing? I see a fair number of trucks, vans, and even cars with film on including a Tesla model X with a wild scheme on it.
I would think that once the bodywork is smooth and properly prepped actual application seems to look easy
Certainly no harder than applying any big decal smoothly
