i'm wanting a vintage fixed head sports car for weekends, car shows, etc. i have an 03 miata for long trips. i've narrowed my selection down to the lotus or trimuph . i have previously owned both. the europa i had for such a short time that i didn't get a good feel for it. the gt6 i had over 30 years ago so the memories are dim. what is the good and bad of owning eather car these days? i'll be looking in the driver range . not junk but not show quality eather.what are your observations?
I've owned a couple of GT6s and looked at buying a Europa more than once.
Initial thoughts? Both are really, really small, really hot, and not particularly comfortable.
The europa has good (great) handling, but will probably be a problem child.
The GT6 has ok to scary handling, depending on the year, but will probably be reasonably reliable.
For car shows and crusing, I'd lean toward the GT6.
But honestly, I'd lean toward neither. I think you should consider the MGB-GT. Or maybe a Mini, or a Stag...
You've got your Miata, and there's easier to live with tintops than the Europa and GT6.
That said, I LOVED my GT6s
Never owned a Lotus... but love my GT6.
Easy to keep going, great fun and I've learned a lot from it.
Already planning at least 2 camping trips with the car this yr.
Mosport for sure and maybe The Glen...
A.
Read the X1/9 article and call me in the morning. The GT6 and Lotus are great but getting difficult to find. The little Fiat, on the other hand is common and fits your needs well. You will also get a show car for the cost of a poor GT or Lotus.
Cheers Ron
I am partial to Porsche 914s, but other options include (similar price range):
Porsche 912
MBG GT
Fiat X1/9
Fiat 124 Coupe
Saab Sonnet
Volvo 1800
Karmann Ghia (not exactly sporty, but easy to hot rod)
BMW 2002
Alfa GTV
Early Mercury (Ford) Capri
Lancia Fulvia
Lancia Scorpion
I think the Lotus is an expensive habit and from what I understand, the fiberglass can be a challenge. The GT6 is a really pretty car, and of the two, it's likely the better choice. The MBG GT has much of the same style as the GT6, but is much more common (i.e. cheaper, better parts availability, etc...).
Good luck!
I replied on the GRM forum, but I also have to recommend driving an X1/9. It's by far the closest experience to the Lotus, and will be more reliable. They're not as "common" as a GT6, but they are fairly easy to find.
That said, I love GT6's, that inline 6 sounds awesome and is one of its main attractions.
Don't overlook a good 240Z either, they have the best of the GT6 looks and the reliability of the Miata all combined into one.
My dad has a Europa and an Elan +2, so I can talk a little about the Europa.
I think the driving position is a little awkward at first, but just get some skinny shoes and it's fine.
Getting in is not graceful, but there's a trick to doing it easily. Right leg in first, sit down, then pull left leg in. Once you're inside, there's actually quite a bit of room.
Fiberglass is not difficult if done correctly, you can get all the information you need to know from an aircraft supply company like Wick's or Aircraft Spruce. The have videos and instruction manuals as well as raw supplies.
The Europa had a full restoration about 22 years ago, and it's been incredibly reliable. The only problems my father has ever had with his Lotii (he's had 5 total) have been where DPO's have gone in and messed something up.
Parts are not too bad, as the Twin cam is basically a tarted up Ford Kent. Watch out for water pumps. Front suspension is Triumph Spitfire and Vitesse, but very early Spitfire.
The car does not leak oil. Never has. Take some care in rebuilding the engine, and yours won't either.
Driving the car is like drizzling honey on Keira Knightley. It's absolutely the most sublime handling car ever. Not at all tricky at the limit. When it breaks loose, it's just to the understeer side of neutral. No tendency to swap ends, and it's actually very controllable in a 4 wheel drift.
With a Dave Bean Stainless header and exhaust, the car sounds great. It's very quiet, but muscley sounding.
I will say that there is a serious problem with the Stock Alloy wheels. They are lug-centric rather than hub-centric, however the lug holes in the wheel are not tapered which allows for some wear and a wobble above about 60 mph. So we made an insert for each wheel to become hub-centric, and they are great now. Panasports also work well and look great.
Club support is excellent as well. A good full-color newsletter with lots of tech articles.
Ok, that's probably enough for now. Here's a picture of the Lotii together:
A little MP3 of the exhaust from a GT6 MK1.
I can talk about the Renault powered Europas a little bit. I purchased one about a year and a half ago for less than three thousand bucks in drivable condition. I fixed a few small problems, fuel pump, Pertronix electronic ignition, spark plugs and wires, and the guy I purchased it from had a single DCOE setup for it. Installed those five items and it runs like a charm. With the original solex carb on the Renault engines, you're looking at about 85 bhp with a fuel economy of about 35 mpg, with the Weber I have read articles that say I sould have about 100 bhp, and I get about 40 mpg with it. Insanely easy car to work on, and with the few upgrades that I did the car has been dead reliable.
I will make one more comment, I drove a Seven clone a couple years ago at the National Lotus Convention, and the Lotus guys are perhaps the best car club I've ever hung around. Not at all pretentious like some other clubs, and all around a great event. That alone makes me want a Lotus.
thanks for all of your alternate suggestions. i've considered all of them a one time or another (maybe not the capri) and have eliminated them for various reasons. i appriciate your making me think through them one more time though. the gt6 can be made to handle reasonably well. i have had spitfires in the distant past and remember some tricks. i do like the gt6. the lotus might be a fragle, needy thing but will handle like a brick on snot. also,since i'm older and over 6 feet egress and comfort may be important factors. maintance/ modifications souldn't be much of an issue. i like working on them as much as driving them. any more information, experiences? and thanks to all.
As another alternative, you might look at a TVR. I've never owned one but would love the opportunity. I've always imagined that they combine the handling of the Lotus with the sweet and torquey straight six of the TR6.
-Chris R.
A TVR is like a Lotus with a bad attitude.
I want one.
I have a GT-6 and have owned a Europa. Very different feeling cars. A Plus 2 Lotus is also a good choice, perhaps a little more solid than a Europa, but still has the great handling.
My vote is for the GT-6. The end item is rare, but made up of the most common parts. Also the mix and match capibility is AWSOME. The very late Spits had uprated every thing that will simply bolt on the GT-6. Also the 2.5 option with the Moss blower...Lastly, nobody really seems to beable to recognize the GT-6. And yes, I miss my GT-6.
Leo
"A TVR is like a Lotus with a bad attitude." Ha ha - I like it! Here's a picture of my bad boy:
FWIW, there's a Europa ad on collectorcartrader.com right now... asking $10K... looks like a good "driver' condition car. I've seen GT6's in similar condition with higher asking prices...
If I were even remotely in the market to buy, I wouldn't be posting this... :twisted:
What is that dangling below it?
rubber hose – connects the exhaust with the claustrophobic interior
Shift linkage. Or, more precisely, a rubber snake from the dollar store that connects the shifter to the back of the transaxle.
My god that has to be the ugliest rear-view of any car ever made... :omg:
I still want one... :cool:
They look way better in person... what looks like a breadvan in pictures is actually only about 9 inches tall... makes it look pretty sleek.
I've had coffee tables that were larger, taller (and heavier) than a Europa.
If you're over 6' tall a GT6 will be a challenge & if you're over 40 getting in & out of both will be very amusing for spectators.
Yeah... definitely better in person...
Someday...
:grin:
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