MG MIdget/Mini Cooper go-fast info needed !

Hi,

I just recently picked up a little 1958 Austin A35 in great condition, no rot or rust but without an engine or transmission.

I'm replacing the rear end with a late model 3.90 MG Midget unit, and the front suspension/brakes with an early model disk set-up. The local discount tire store has 165/80/r13 tires running around $115 for four with ought to "adjust" the rear gear ratio nicely for highway driving.

I desperately need some guidance on what drive train to swap into the Austin shell. Being that it's a unibody car and as solid as can be, I really don't want to go through the trouble/expense of tubular sub-frame/front clip/major suspension mods in order to install a Corvette motor and all that goes with it. I thought about a 60 degree GM or maybe a Ford L4, the usual Rover pipe dream and everything in between from a Datsun 210 drive line to a Rotary.

Not sure WHAT to do !

I've recently heard that the little MG Midget (A series engines) can be made to perform up to Mini Cooper standards and retain drive-ability, even more so that the B series engines. Something in the area of 110 hp was quoted. This is where I'd like to be, right around 90 to 120 hp if at all possibly.

The hindrance is in the steering design which places the steering link right across the bulkhead behind the engine and above the trans bell housing. It sits at about mid valve cover level of an MG Midget engine. This could foul a lot of bigger bell housings, limit the engine choices and force the engine to sit a bit more forward in the unibody that usual with a large four cylinder.

Anyway, I need a lot of help/suggestions/information/tech/encouragement here and was hoping that some of you might have the knowledge needed.

Thanks,

TC

There's no shortage on information on hopping up the A-series. David Vizard has a couple of cookbooks. Keep in mind that the numbers are usually quoted at the flywheel, and 110 is the high end of the range. The driveability retained (and longevity) is going to be a matter of relativity.

There was a turbo variant of the A-series installed in the 80s Metro ...

The Midget rear axle is probably going to be the weakest link here though.

110hp on an A series is going to cost a fair amount of money and as Keith says, is very likely to affect drivability. You'll definitely want a bored-out 1275cc as a starting point (1330cc is a fairly common size in in the UK). One of the bigger restrictions on the A series is the head due to its siamesed port design so at that level you're getting into "probably have to start looking at alternative heads" territory to improve breathing. One of the neater conversions uses a head from a BMW K100.

Oh, and don't forget that the gearbox was designed for and 850cc engine making 34hp.

ArthurDent wrote: There was a turbo variant of the A-series installed in the 80s Metro ...

I don't think that one is that easy to find anymore, they've all been put into Minis as "cheap" performance mods. Not sure how easy it is to adapt that to the RWD setup either.

U can get 150 out of the 1.3 n/a, but driveability is shot. My buddy has a turbo for one. Dont know if he is selling it tho. 100bhp is not hard to do at all.

The head swaps arnt really worth all the effort. You could always swap in an s2000 drivetrain.

I have a 1275, but have yet to rebuild it.

Performance mods are well documented as mentioned earlier. You could lurk at the mgexperience website for more ideas and vendors to hook you up for less money.

What do you plan to do with the car? If you are going to drive it occasionally on the street I wouldn't recommend extreme mods because they will affect driveability. Also to be considered is the reliability of the engine. I'm pretty sure a hot rodded 1275 is less likely to grenade than a hot rodded 948, but you are still pushing old engine technology pretty hard.

Another caveat of building a hot 1275 is you will probably not be able to run pump gas.

If you are thinking of a swap, I'd look to the spinning triangles.

I seem to be right up against a wall with this project, almost nothing but an MG Midget will fit the engine bay without requiring a major front suspension and steering change over. I'm not sure how much of a project I want this to turn into, but a Midget engine, even a well built warmed over one is going to be pretty strained pushing a brick like the A35 around. I drove a Midget for four years or so and it wasn't very fast and terrible on the highway with the trans and rear end gearing and the small engine; even in a light car.

Thanks for the info and encouragement though, might just have to re-think the whole thing. LOVE the shape of the car, really in love with the charm of it all, but I can't drive a 40 horsepower four passenger sedan in today's world, on today's roads.

Would consider a Rotary but can't afford the tariff for new seals and an inevitable rebuild.

We're talking over $1,000 for just the small parts . . .

Thanks again,

TC

Compared to what it costs to build a hot 1275/1300, a grand for seals is peanuts.

Yup ! But I can trade British for British or sell some MGB go-fast parts for the equivalent Midget parts. My DCOE Weber could by used as is and I'm comfortable selling/trading/buying used British engine parts and pieces.

The Rotary is mystery meat. I have nothing applicable to trade for parts or labor All new ground for me so I would have to pay right out of pocket. A grand spent on a Rotary could be whittled down to five on a Midget with some trading for work and parts.

With an A or B series engine I'm familiar and partially stocked with intake/carb/header/etc. parts and pieces to help give me a head start, you know?

But still . . . I have to get used to owning a little car that's a smidge slow. Could happen and I'm thankful for all of this info to help me make up my mind.

TC

IIRC A35s aren't that heavy so any engine that's in moderately warmed up Mini territory should make it move. It's never going to beat a modern car from the lights but it's also a few olders.

Heck, they used to race these in the UK. Admittedly they seem to race pretty much everything with three or four wheels over there, but still...

Vizard's books are really good. If you want to tackle a swap, you should seriously consider Toyota 4AGE or Miata. will probably fit pretty easily, and dead reliable.

I've got a hot little 1293 in my Mini. It's about 80-85 hp at the flywheel, and it's a rorty, hilarious little mill. Not super-fast, but torquey and full of character. So don't concentrate on power alone.

Hi,

Thanks again for the info and encouragement ! I just learned today that a Buddy of mine has a friend who is a partner in a Mini parts business, he's gonna hook me up and maybe help me grab up a drive train from a Midget and some Mini speed equipment for it. Could have this thing worked out by next weekend.

I measured up the engine bay in the Austin, it's 1'11" from the firewall to the radiator, 1'4" between the frame rails, and it has 10" between the trans center line and the steering crossover link. An L4 Ford will fit easily in the bay, as will a 60 degree GM V6. Both clear the steering box although both need some metal trimming for the exhaust header(s).

I didn't have a Rotary in the yard to measure, but I'll do that during the week.

Spoke with a good friend about the front springs and he suggested just ordering up a set of racing springs, and he'll help box in the lower A arms and reinforce the spring perches. A tube shock conversion up front and things ought to be OK no matter which engine goes in.

Midget rear, rebuilt springs, coil-over shocks, with the battery in the rear and a fuel cell and I might be half way there with a bit of luck.

So, the search continues and the problems haven't been solved yet, though things are goin' forward at least.

The Midget rear end won't stand up to a GM or Ford swap for very long. If you go that route you would want a Ford or GM rear end.

I was thinking about it, and the 1275 will give you about twenty extra horses even if it's stock (euro spec). Plus I think the A series engines used all the same mounts.

Why not a Midget drive train and 1275 for a little more spirit in the Austin? Add a LCB header and a mild cam, make some carb mods and it will prolly be a lot of fun! It's not going to lay rubber, but it may give you the zip you are looking for for a lot less work.

I have a core 1275 I can sell you depending on where you are in the country. And my friend Charlie Powell can hook you up with good prices on used parts: vintagebritishcars44@gmail.com.

It just depends on how far you (and your wallet) want to take it!

If I end up going with the A series, I found a few folks locally selling Midget engines in good running condition, all set there. For the go-fast goodies, I'll have to go shopping for sure. Head first, then intake/exhaust to start with. Once in the car, hooked and tested, then a cam and new rings, maybe pistons as well Still not sure that quick, sporty, fun, or zippy is the way that I want to go. Sticking with the A series is the easy quick way out, but to be where i want to be, it'll easily and quickly bust my budget as well.

A transplant might be the answer for me. Almost any engine at all comes with double the horsepower built right in, a few quick mods and it's another twenty over that. Modify it as far as I'd have to modify the A series mill and it's fifty, regardless of the lump that I begin with.

I had a 231 V6 in a Karmann Ghia, I'm comfortable with easy starts and not taxing the gears. The Midget rear end is a bolt-in and necessary to get juice brakes and a 3.9 gearing in place. I'll save up and replace it before it fails. Not too worried about that.

But still . . . have to talk with the Mini guy this week and see if I might not change my mind. Just a whole new mind set for me, I drive a 2009 Mustang and everyone else I hang with runs TR8s.

Pic of V6 Ghia under construction attached below . . .

I've always wanted to build a twin cam 16v a+

http://www.twinkam.co.uk/shop/page/9?shop_param=

Suzuki swift with Samurai 5 speed and cut down rx7 rear end.

Or just weld the spiders that is what fails.

Fiat 124 with 5 speed if you want retro, Miata if you dont.

In reply to TeamEvil:

The 1275cc Cooper/Midget engine is a fun little unit and not hard to get 100+ HP or more. I had a 70 Midget back in the day. I used over size 1 1/2" SU's, "731" 3/4 camshaft, headers, shaved the head to about a 11:1 CR, lightened the flywheel, ported the head. Wasn't that expensive. I used to be able to out drag 240Z's at the stoplight grand prix.

The engine we built for the CMS Midget was a 1380 A-series that did 105 at the crank, 85 at the wheels. You can read about it in a past issue of CMS. That engine was right on the edge of something you'd run on the street, but it was really fun. Dave Anton from APT did the engine. He and Vizard started APT and Anton was next to Vizard while he wrote several of his books. APT is a great source to make these engines go--keep in mind that speed costs money, though.

--Carl

Austin A35 redux . . .

Well—been measuring and planning for a handful of days now and found the almost any V6, all compact in-line four cylinders and the Ford L4 engines will fit fine in the engine bay of my Austin, but a whole bunch of folks have emailed and such and said that I would be missing a LOT by not returning the car to the basic configuration that it was manufactured with and just warming that engine up a bit. The whole character and charm would be changed and lost with an engine transplant I guess, and most folks insist that it would take little to bring the A series engine up to a reasonable around town performer. A little more to get it to highway speeds, and not too much more than that to make it a quick little sedan, relatively speaking . . .

The weight of the Austin is around 685 kg, the original Mini is 675 kg, and the Midget is 685 for the chrome bumper model. I'm using the Mini and Midget as a guide as the weights are so similar to the Austin. The Austin will be a bit lighter as there won't be a back seat, feather weight Fiat 600 front seats, alloy spare tire, fuel cell, plexi side windows, felt carpets, etc.

Can anyone who drives a mildly built up Mini or Midget give me a fair evaluation of their car's road manners, acceleration, highway driving quirks, around town performance, etc. And what small (or even large) alterations might have been made to the engine or suspension to improve things.

Once the new enclosure is built and the car in place, I have a good line on an early Midget front disk brake and suspension assembly and a late model Midget 3.9 rear end. Those ought to help civilize the car a great deal and bring it up to semi-modern stopping standards.

Anyway, thank you for all of the help and suggestions and thanks for the input/insistence of those with minds much sounder than my own for putting me on what seems to be the right track with this little car.

Any help on running the A series mill and any comments about it's every day use, and any suggestions for warming it up just a little bit without breaking the budget would be a massive help ! !

Thanks !

NOHOME wrote: Suzuki swift with Samurai 5 speed and cut down rx7 rear end.

^ This would be awesome! Because it could sound like This!

Good choice team evil

I haven't built a 1275 (yet), but much can be done with higher compression pistons, ported head, mild cam and some simple SU modifications. Hap Waldrop at ACME Speed Shop knows the mods well and is very willing to help.

Depending on where you live, I have a core rebuildable 1275 in my garage right now if you need it

TeamEvil wrote: Can anyone who drives a mildly built up Mini or Midget give me a fair evaluation of their car's road manners, acceleration, highway driving quirks, around town performance, etc. And what small (or even large) alterations might have been made to the engine or suspension to improve things.

As I mentioned, I've got a Rob Walker-built 1293 that's in the 80-90 hp range at the flywheel. I didn't commission the engine - it was in the car already - so without digging into old paperwork I can't comment on just what's been done.

It's quite driveable around town. I've taken it on long road trips, including a trip from Michigan to Colorado with a 71 mph average. The cooling system was in poor repair at that time and I found that it cooled best under heavy load when climbing mountain passes, so I went up the big climbs with my foot to the floor passing everyone in sight I have since added a small aux radiator to help my little beastie in the high desert it finds so foreign.

It doesn't have a lot of power below 4000 and it has a lumpy idle, but it's a hugely endearing engine to drive. It's all character and eggs you on to drive faster and faster. There is a hole in the gearing that can be a big problem on a long climb if you fall off the cam, but otherwise it's great. Around town, it wants me to be 5 mph faster than all other traffic. Now, keep in mind I don't live in a major metropolis but a moderately small town. If you're engaging in traffic light drag races from every intersection, the 0-40 time might be a bit slow. BTW, it's almost dead even with a mostly-stock 1.8 Miata through first and second.