Model A or........?

My A does about 50-55 mph. Parts are cheap and easy and knowledge is infinite. A nice coupe is 10-15 grand and a beater is more like 5K

The amazing thing about that Finnish Model A was how they controlled the engine ignition to sound like a Model A, until you wanted it to sound like a Cosworth.

In reply to mazdeuce: I have owned two. One was a Roadster the other a pickup. Both were great fun and easy to maintain. In fact there are probably more A parts available than almost any North American branded ride older than fifteen years. There is a dedicated cottage industry for As & some Bs, just like with Triumphs and some other British brands which still makes new parts.

First off. Install hydraulic brakes! Again, parts are readily available, and at least when I was still involved with As, hydraulic brakes were considered period correct and accepted without loss of concourse points.

For a practical reason, room inside, I'd look for a 2 door or equivalent. Roadster and pickups don't have much room inside. And Roadsters are much more expensive to buy.

Tim Suddard wrote: My A does about 50-55 mph. Parts are cheap and easy and knowledge is infinite. A nice coupe is 10-15 grand and a beater is more like 5K

And 0-10 mph, it'll beat almost anything modern out there. Not 0-15 however. Transmission, unless you're into creep mode, you really don't need a transmission. The "bottom end" torque is huge!

My dad wanted a prewar roadster/convertible and landed on a 1932 Chevy Roadster. The biggest reason for this vs. a Ford A was his possible future interest in taking it on some longer trips, or at least longer day trips rather than just around town. Good enough brakes and the I6 makes it fairly comfortable at reasonable highway speeds (although it feels like you are going much faster than 50-55) and gets up to speed very reasonably. I think once he gets the steering a bit tighter, I'd be comfortable to 60, maybe more. I'm expecting an A would be a liability trying to take it on the highway, but I've never been in one. Coups are significantly cheaper. The Buick or Olds route of the same era are as well.

There seems to be a pretty active group of A owners too. At least around here. And they drive their cars too. Every now and then I'll be riding around PA/NJ and get passed by a caravan of A's.

We were at a car show a few years ago and about a dozen of them from the local club stopped by to take a look for a few minutes before continuing on to where ever they were going.

In reply to klb67: With reasonable preparation and a list of Model A club members, an A is a fine two lane road trip car. IT IS NOT AN INTERSTATE CAR! Anyone can and many will be happy to work on it and help with parts for it if things go awry. As was pointed out pretty much anywhere in the US I've ever been, even today, there are lots of A and duece lovers out there. And yes they are generally more than excited to help others and receive help themselves if needed.

I wouldn't drive an A much more than across the street unless it had the hydraulic brakes. I know people say the mechanical brakes are fine as long as you keep them adjusted. I DO NOT AGREE! There is no reason, including originality at car shows, to not make that common sense change.

I own a lot of old Fords and my shop (Eclectic Motorworks) works on a lot of early American iron as well as the British/European stuff we're more known for. My Fords include a couple of 1906 Model Ns, a couple of Model Ts, a couple of Model As, and several 1932-38 V8s. Get ready for a long post...

With all due respect to Rupert, I am in the camp that believes (and has measured stopping distances) mechanical brakes on a Model A or 1932-38 V8 can be as effective as juice brakes. The math (simple version is clamping force times drum radius, more complicated versions have been published in stories I've written in GRM/CMS and other magazines) supports this. You can lock up all four wheels with mechanical brakes, and the rule of thumb is that if you can lock up your wheels, you don't need more brake, you need more tire.

However, where I am on the same page as most of you is that I still greatly prefer juice brakes. To get mechanical brakes to work as well as I described above, you need to have everything perfect. Beyond adjustments you need the best woven linings, properly arced to the drums. Every bit of slop and compliance should be out of the system and every adjustment must be spot-on. Juice brakes have much less to adjust, have fewer compliance issues, and are much less complicated (they benefit from woven linings and arced shoes too).

Moving past the brake debate, one of the very fun things I'll do with people from time to time is fire up each "generation" of old Ford. A Model N is like a horse and buggy without the horse and has even sillier driving rules than a T. It will go 35-40mph (it's nearly as powerful and much lighter than a T), but anything above 15 or so feels like 100. When you jump into the T, it feels like a thoroughly modern car compared to the N. As stated, it's about a 35mph car. But, like the N, it has one, very small brake on the transmission only (the rear brake drums are parking brakes). Engine braking is almost more effective than real braking. When you're done with the T and jump into an A, the A feels like a thoroughly modern car compared to the T. Now you've got a regular H-pattern shifter, four wheel brakes, conventional gas and clutch pedals, etc. in a 55-60mph car. Even though it will go that fast, I hate driving an A above about 40 due to the "automatic lane changing" and other creepy factors of an A at speed. Guess what happens when you go from the A to a 32-34 V8--a markedly more modern feeling car. These have longer wheelbases, bigger brakes, bigger engines, and are just that much more refined. But the real winner as Tim mentioned is the later V8--1935 to post war (until 1949, Fords used the same basic chassis arrangement as the 1935-41 cars). Not only does this era feel much more modern than their predecessor, they actual feel fairly modern compared to even some cars from the late 1970s. They'll do 70+ with confidence (although I prefer about 55-60). It is amazing how much better a late 1930s car is than even a car 5-10 years older.

As mentioned, T prices aren't as low as they used to be, but the non-brass era cars are generally less money that a Model A in similar condition. Model A values have gone up especially due to hot rodders. 1932-34 cars are stupid expensive, mainly due to hot rodders. 1935-newer V8s are generally no more than Model As and some body styles like 4 doors can be cheaper.

I bought a pretty nice 1938 2 door Standard Sedan two years ago for $7000. The paint is about 35 years old and has some real patina. It has its original interior that's pretty tired but some blankets took car of that. It had been converted to juice brakes and needed a refresh, along with new wiring (a harness and supplies was about $150). I put about $1000 more into it and I've got a very reliable car that I'm not afraid to drive anywhere. There are still values like this one out there still in this price range.

Fords are generally more expensive than other makes, and I agree with klb67 that Chevy's are great. In addition to the prewar stuff, 1948-54 Chevy cars and trucks are also great drivers.

Sorry if this is too long or preachy, but it's a great topic and I thought I'd share my first-hand experience.

Carl

Think outside the box...Nobody does eclectic like the French.

Carl, thanks for posting. I have been to Carl's place. He knows what he is talking about. Sorry to hijack the thread, but Carl do you have the machine needed to arc the brake shoes? the Tornado desperately needs this done.

SyntheticBlinkerFluid wrote: There are a lot of Model As still out there. Definitely test drive one first, because it may be too archaic for you.

This. Get as much free seat time as you can. The idea of owning a Model A may be better than the reality.

Tim Suddard wrote: Sorry to hijack the thread, but Carl do you have the machine needed to arc the brake shoes? the Tornado desperately needs this done.

I've done it by running the brakes a bit to see where they hit the drums, then sanding them until the maximum amount of shoe makes contact. Usually, they need the center of the shoe compound taken down to get the contact pattern spread out toward the ends.

Jerry's method will work if you've got the time, but the machines are nicer. I've come close to getting one several times, but haven't bothered yet as I have two friends/shop owners nearby who I outsource them to.

Carl

Carl Heideman wrote: Jerry's method will work if you've got the time, but the machines are nicer. I've come close to getting one several times, but haven't bothered yet as I have two friends/shop owners nearby who I outsource them to. Carl

What do your vendors charge for that service (roughly)? I've only done this on old front drum brakes since they're doing most of the work in a four-drum system.

In reply to Carl Heideman:You are correct if all 4 tires brake equally with mechanical brakes. However, it's been my experience that anyone I ever knew who owned an A and wasn't part of a shop or restoration operation never kept their brakes adjusted correctly.

As a pro, I'm sure your mechanical brakes are fine. But most of us aren't pros. We need juice brakes.

NOHOME wrote: Think outside the box...Nobody does eclectic like the French.

This! Vintage in the right places and modern feeling in the right places. And locally, they are about the same price.

In reply to Jerry From LA:

$25-50 per drum/shoe set. Not free, but totally worth it. Of course, if they're not local, there is shipping as well.

And Ruport, we're on the same page. It's a lot of work to get those mechanical brakes right. When we do it for a customer and they put a few hundred miles a year on the car, they'll stay okay for a few years, then it's a minor service to get them back in shape. If they're driving over 1000 miles a year, it's too much effort to keep them dialed in.

NOHOME wrote: Think outside the box...Nobody does eclectic like the French.

Wow!! I've always loved Citroens! But the people I know nearby who own them are always searching for parts.

Rupert wrote:

NOHOME wrote: Think outside the box...Nobody does eclectic like the French.

Wow!! I've always loved Citroens! But the people I know nearby who own them are always searching for parts.

That's amazingly pretty. If one is willing to learn some French and put parts on the slow boat, are the parts really available? I'd trade convenience for waking up to that in my garage.

Might want to look into an early 30s Mopar. I had a 33 Plymouth that had all the right stuff for modern traffic: hydraulic brakes, six cylinders, easy to drive. All stock stuff.

mazdeuce wrote: Not looking for a V8 car, just a back road cruiser that is way outside my current range of automotive experience.

914Driver wrote:

mazdeuce wrote: Not looking for a V8 car, just a back road cruiser that is way outside my current range of automotive experience.

Wow That's a car?? I first thought it was a railway locomotive!

Huh, I always thought the A had hydraulic brakes. Was the B the first to get those? I've never driven a mechanically-braked car, but feel like hydraulic brakes are one of those "must have" minimum things for a car to be a legitimate driver on modern roads. Also, the state I live in (MD) requires that for a car to be operated on a road, it must be mechanically capable of reaching a speed at least 5 mph faster than the posted speed limit. Not sure if/ how that's enforced, but might be something to look into. IIRC an 'A' is good for about 45-50 mph in stock form.

In reply to volvoclearinghouse:

Ford didn't switch to hydraulic until 1939, I think it was just the typical Henry Ford stubbornness and licensing issues. Plus they had a nice advertising slogan for the mech brakes. “The safety of steel from pedal to wheel”. Chevy didn't switch until 1936, but they had cable brakes, which are a lot less finicky, some VW bugs had cable brakes into the 60s.

Model A is 40 horsepower and wide open without regard to risk a 50MPH car stock. They can be upgraded to hydraulic brakes easily enough but even those need a really strong leg to get stopped assuming they get frequent adjustment and service.. They are more about parades and slow cruising than fun bombing around the back country roads.

50-60 horsepower is possible but much over that requires too much work and too much risk of failure to be real fun..

The Flathead V8's hot rodders put into them started out at 80 horsepower and 250 horsepower is possible with enough money and work.. Small block Chevys are like belly buttons. Plus you tend to lose value going that direction