Project Suggestions...

I know there are some similar threads going on right now but nothing seems to quite have the answer I'm looking for. I'd like to find something most likely from the 60's or 70's, likely of British, Italian or German heritage but that isn't essential, convertible, can fit 2 small kids (in cars seats) in the back and could be picked up in driveable but needs work condition for $5k or less. Not a lot is coming to mind. Other than the fact it needs to seat 4 and be a convertible i suppose I'm somewhat flexible on everything else. If a back seat wasn't a requirement I would probably be looking towards MGB's & Spitfires as there are still some deals on those and both are prett simple to work on with plenty of support available. I need a back seat though as I really want this to be something the whole family can enjoy. Anyone have any suggestions?

I'd look at domestics: Corvair, Dart, Valiant, etc. I'd also just search the online classifieds for something in your price range that features the keyword convertible. (Leave the make blank, although this method isn't perfect since any car that's obvious a convertible wouldn't show up in the results.)

I found something these neat cruisers using my imperfect searching method:

http://www.autotraderclassics.com/details?adId=90359448

http://www.autotraderclassics.com/details?adId=90323268

http://www.autotraderclassics.com/details?adId=90335884

http://www.autotraderclassics.com/details?adId=90359023

http://www.autotraderclassics.com/details?adId=90305707

http://www.autotraderclassics.com/details?adId=90367255

http://www.autotraderclassics.com/details?adId=90275287

http://www.autotraderclassics.com/details?adId=90339431

http://www.autotraderclassics.com/details?adId=90367663

http://www.autotraderclassics.com/details?adId=90318578

http://www.autotraderclassics.com/details?adId=90334441

http://www.autotraderclassics.com/details?adId=90361306

http://www.autotraderclassics.com/details?adId=90325428

Another option: VW Beetle? (Finding a good one at that price depends on your karma.)

http://www.autotraderclassics.com/details?adId=90371007

If you're thinking European, the number of true 4-seat convertibles that made it here (and survived) is pretty short. I'd look at the Triumph Herald or maybe a Stag, if you can find a decent one in your budget.

As David suggested, a Beetle might be an option, but definitely don't rule out the Americans. I just saw a pretty decent Corvair convertible near me go for 2 grand.

How about a Lancia Zagato. Those easily seat 4 and have the added safety of the targa bar. Nice ones can be picked up for $5k.

http://www.sickchilly.com/gallery2/d/1364-2/ade.jpg http://www.sickchilly.com/gallery2/d/1402-2/adx.jpg

Not a classic but a convertible Sunfire fits your very tight parameters other than age. The Fiat spider has a small seat in the rear but it will become too small very soon by age 9. I would suggest that you think coupe if you want 60-70's vintage. A cabriolet Rabbit or VW bug also comes to mind. I think the need for rear seats over rides the need for sporty at this time.

Cheers Ron

Ron, a Sunfire???

We can do better. At least get a Saab 900 convertible. You can get them with the turbo engine (most, if not all, are) and they don't cost any more than a craptastic Sunfire/Cavalier.

And I generally dislike Saabs!

Well, if we're going non-classic, I'd be all over an E30 convertible.

Dwight: I was working outside the of usual choices and thinking. The convertible Sunfire has a certain cool factor with the lid down. There is a nice Fox body Mustang convertible V6 that is driven with obvious pride of ownership. Then again I wouldn't suggest a Jeep.

Cheers Ron

Yeah, the Bug fits your criteria pretty well. If you're looking for a project, you can go ahead and finish mine up for me. ;)

Bryce

Thanks very much for your input everyone...lots to think about.

I don't want to be the kind of guy who makes blanket statements like "I don't like domestics" or "I only buy _____ (insert brand name of choice here)" but generally speaking, the domestics I could consider in this price range don't really spark my interest. Thanks David for taking the time to include the links to show me what would be available. The one possible exception would be the Corvair so I need to learn more about those.

The Beetle had also crossed my mind. I'm not sure how excited I get about them in stock trim but I've always liked Baja Bugs and for years wanted a Manx styled buggy in the worst way. I suppose you could probably put a couple of car seats in the back of a buggy but it seems like they might be sitting a little high...any thoughts?

The Zagato is an interesting thought. There's actually one that has been sitting in a driveway about 10 minutes from me for quite some time. How are these for reliability, simplicity & parts availability?

I've noticed that small back seat in some Fiat Spiders. Are there actually seat belts there as well?

I'm not sure I'm ready to concede and not get a convertible (I really miss the Miata we had before starting a family) but if I were to go with a tin top what other suggestions does anyone have?

Thanks Mark

Talking tin-tops, you might consider a 116 series Alfa Romeo GTV.

Or a BMW 2002.

Don't give up on the tin top dreams. Convertibles are going up in value and you'll be happy you bought one a few years from now.

I'd seriously look at the Corvair. I've never been much of a GM fan beyond their styling but Corvairs work for me. They run good, are fairly dependable, and have a really low center of gravity for a car of that period. For the best handling get one with the later rear suspension (1965 and newer, I think). The steering and brakes can be upgraded with S-10 parts if my web trolling memory is correct.

The Lancia Beta Zagato is a love/hate car. Pretty car, nice to drive, complete bastard to work on. One look under the hood and you'll see what I mean; it has very little space. Parts availability isn't bad but there are some pieces you'll really search to find. The upside is you can find a near perfect example for less money than a show quality Corvair. However, there is no Clark's Corvair Parts catalog for Lancia Betas. I think Corvairs are as easy to get parts for as Mustangs.

I think you'll pay a dear price for a Beetle convertible anymore. For that kind of cash you can start looking at Mini convertibles (many conversions out there of varying quality) and Mini Mokes.

The Fiat Spider does have a somewhat usable seat in the back but only the newer cars had the rear mounted seat belts. Not to say you couldn't retrofit an earlier car.

Fox Mustang convertibles trade pretty inexpensively because they make lousy race cars. Parts are cheap and plentiful and more power is easy. Just watch for rust as even galvanized metal didn't help them.

An E30 convertible is a great idea, don't know why I didn't think of it. Not that old, I know, but a great car before getting the roofectomy. A large percentage of them are automatics but there are 5 speed ones out there and converting one isn't really that hard. I'd give these a serious look if the newness doesn't bother you. Just two words on these: timing belt.

A Fiat Spider can work. I have rear belts in my 1979 and used them (rarely) for kids under 9 and over 5. I suspect a modern child car seat might not fit but a booster should. A third adult is possible with both seats moved forward so I keep the belts. Find a fiat enthusiast near you to test fit the seats. I think that the padding could be removed for child seats. Cheers Ron

An E30 convertible is indeed nice. Later versions with the M42 DOHC 4 cyl shouldn't be counted out either. I have a 4dr M42 equipped car and it's quite a fun ride. No road burner, mind you, but no pig either. Mine's in quite good tune with a slight CR bump (head slightly milled) and a 93 octane chip and a friend with a 96 328i has to really want to pass in order to do so. (This really surprised both of us - we figured that he'd put my little white car in the weeds pretty easily and it didn't work out that way at all!) It's very tossable with great brakes, has a 7100 rpm redline with the chip, is reliable, there's great aftermarket support, and it's in your price range. I consider it a latter day 2002...or maybe a Fiat 131 done with better materials.

if you don't like the beetle, what about a ghia? at 5k you could find a driver, definately not a show car, but something you could drive without worry.

So, buy anything yet? And while newer, the BMW 3 series could work. How's the back seat room on an E30 convertible? My parents had an E36 convertible, and it was pretty tight back there. Would child seats fit? On the plus side, their car had pop-up rollover protection. Cool car, still. I was sorry to see them sell it.

From another forum Cheers Ron

From: Ryan Kooken Email: fiatfanatic@hotmail.com Date: Wed Jul 30 23:24 PDT 2008

Up for grabs..

1982 Zagato, 134k, was refinished about five years ago. however a bit rough now. Had to drive it year round for a year and that took a toll.

the up side.. runs well konis the tail lights arent cracked interior is okay.. not the worst and not the best. Beta owners know what i mean. AC has been converted and works

Down side.. rust..Ive got a handle on it. and have her sanded and primered where it i did the body work. rest of car could be buffed up nice. Leaks oil.

I put this car back together a coupla years ago. Bought it at carlisle and have driven it all over with minimal problems other than the weird beta stuff that goes wrong ie shift linkage and hot start problems. Both I fixed with the shift kit and a starter relay. Need to get it out to focus on other projects. $1200. Or a pre-injected spider, pre-91 Yugo (in great shape), 128(4 door) or 131 wagon trade.

Did I mention Dwight Varnes drove this car once?

other interesting offers considered.. Fiat related.
Ryan

Nothing purchased yet but certainly lots to think about. My plan is to take a closer look at Corvairs, Fiat Spiders w/back seats and maybe even E30/36's as well. If nothing comes along in the next 6 weeks or so there's a British sports car show on at that time near here (I believe the largest one in North America) that could possibly present some new ideas as well (British Car Day @ Bronte Park in Oakville, Ontario, Canada...amazing show!!). The E36 convertible has me thinking. One of those could become a fun daily driver the whole family could enjoy and at some point I could pick up the 2 seater MG/Triumph/etc. I really want for me! Hmmmm.

Think out of the front engine, rear drive box. building a mid-engine two seater as a project would be a more interesting challenge. The front engine, rear drive chassis is inherently limiting in many, many ways.

So many car folks refuse to even consider anything mid-engine rear drive for a sports car project.

But, one of his requirements is the ability to seat 4 people, which rules out any mid-engined car I can think of.

In fact, the closest MR car I can think of, with more than 2 seats, is the Matra Bagheera with 3 abreast seats.

Matra Bagheera, that would be a totally neat car to restore! And French to boot!

The Maserati Merek SS has a back seat. As long as you don't have any legs, you can be very comfortable.

Where you are is important. I think Southern Ontario from your comments. Andy's Spiders is in Toronto and local Fiat clubs are here http://www.fiatlanciaunlimited.com/chapters.asp

Remember that the 83 and newer Fiat Spiders replaced the rear padding with a shelf.

Cheers Ron

Corvairs are seriously worth a look. Excellent parts availablilty, and truly excellent handling on the late models ('65 - '69) with a couple of very cheap alterations - like quick steering arms, good shocks (I like Bilsteins) and a performance alignment to get rid of the grinding understeer (yes, I said understeer - GM were really leery of anything approaching neutrality on the late models). Add in a little negative camber all the way around, along with a bunch of positive caster on the front and good modern tires, and you'd be amazed at the grip.

Lots of great publications on maintenance, several good parts sources, and always carry a 9/16 combination wrench and two fan belts. If you toss a belt, you can change it in just a couple of minutes.

The early convertibles are great, too, and arguably prettier than the late converts (but definately don't handle as well). I'd add a front sway bar and quick steering, along with good shocks.

It looks like I'm getting to experience the joys of LBC ownership for the next couple of weeks or so. A friend with a freshly restored '72 MGB is away for 2 weeks and dropped me a line the other day to see if I'd "babysit" the car for him. It didn't take a whole lot of arm twisting to make me agree. I picked it up today and have loved every minute so far. While a "B" doesn't meet all of my criteria at this point it will certainly be a great opportunity to try living with one of the cars I've wanted for a long time. I think I'm most excited about putting my 2.5 year old's car seat in and taking him out for a cruise. That's a smile I can't wait to see!

Ron - I am in Southern Ontario, just outside of Hamilton. Thanks for the link, I'll check it out!

Mark