The more I look at the rules and costs involved with buying/building and running any production based car, the more I'm drawn towards a F500 open wheel car.
The more I look at the rules and costs involved with buying/building and running any production based car, the more I'm drawn towards a F500 open wheel car.
Monkeywrench wrote: Adam Malley's car was a 2nd Gen Civic.. not exactly modern. It was pretty much in the same "name" as Chuck Mathis' VW Rabbit.
Well, remember what it's running against. I love British cars, but even an early Civic has an OHC motor and a crossflow head (IIRC). 
When I say "modern", that's the kind of thing I'm talking about. Not so much the age of the cars, but the technology. Proper valve chains instead of pushrods. Injection instead of carbs. Suspension geometry intended to keep the car on the road, instead of keeping the costs/complexity down on the assembly line. Could you imagine a 240z in "full prep"?
Not to discount Adam's ability of course. He's very quick.
Monkeywrench wrote: You also have to keep in mind, with the LP ruleset, you're seeing Improved Touring and Spec Miata racers move into the production ranks. These guys are used to racing wheel to wheel HARD at every race they show up to. Not only are these drivers fast, but they have the race craft that some of the long-time prod class racers don't have (most of these them run by themselves during the season).
Oh, I agree. I've noticed many of the drivers we've mentioned earlier (guys like Halkias, Sargis, Prather, etc.) on the thread have been successful for a very long time. I saw Jon Brakke has a Miata (on the pole!) now..I know he ran a Corvair for years. Because of things like this, I think I also agree with you about the talent pool in National Production racing not being as deep as in some of the Regional "tub" classes. The only time I've seen any "new blood" join the usual suspects in Prod racing is stuff like Greg Ira showing up in that 240z.
Monkeywrench wrote: National racing is dying too. Up here in the Northeast, the competition is tougher (drivers and car prep) in the regional IT and SM ranks than National Production, most of GT, and SM. There are lots of guys collecting trophies at nationals who would get smoked if they showed up in one of those classes at a regional.
Here in SEDIV, that was once true of IT, but the IT entries kind of leveled off when SM came along. At the time, they were just so much cheaper (and so much fun! I think it's a great, great class). I think SM going National may eventually help restore IT to where it was before SM arrived. I do see a lot of older IT cars that have been for sale for ages being bought & updated.
Monkeywrench wrote: You're buddy Sam might have made it interesting if it was dry. That Z3 has some serious straight-line scoot
The man can drive a lil' bit, too...I just wonder if it's about the money again. His couple of years in the Firebird proved that it can big jump from Regional to National racing. He was very strong in AS the first two or three years AS was a Nat'l class, but started backing down the grid when all the guys with cubic dollars for development started building cars.
In reply to friedgreencorrado:
Without a doubt. I remember reading about Sam from his ITB Volvo days.
The only time I've seen any "new blood" join the usual suspects in Prod racing is stuff like Greg Ira showing up in that 240z.
Greg Ira comes from the FV and IT ranks. The late Tom Thrash was an old Spec-RX7 driver (before SM, it was a really popular class)
FP this year..
Kevin Ruck - 2x ARRC ITA Champ, first year running nationals
Mark Carpenter - former ITA racer
Rick Harris - former Regional SM driver, won the Runoffs in his first year racing Nationals
David Bryson- former Regional and Pro SM driver. This was his first runoffs.
Rupunzell wrote: If TR6 fans truly believe this car is as rugged, durable and competitive as it is perceived to be, a team should field a stock TR6 in any LeMons race.
Ok, that's exactly what we're doing...although some of your points are well-made and there will be some judicious reinforcement, all within the rules and budget. See this link for a few details:
riffrafracing dot blogspot dot com
Yes, we're nuts. But they're good nuts....
I race vintage and have three fellow vintage racers that tried Spec Miata.
Two ran a few races then sold their cars. The other has had his parked for about 2 years and is half-heartedly marketing it.
They both got tired of getting bashed for no reason (#20 car gets punted by #21 car for his position!?) and all the bodywork that had to be done in between races.
The downside to a low barrier to entry is any idiot can afford it and there is no respect for the equipment.
Too bad, really. I'd probably be doing it, too, if it weren't for the experience of my friends. They all still race vintage and, like me, would rather spend time and money maintaining an old car than doing paint and body on a Miata. It may be frustrating to have a weekend end abruptly due to mechanical failure, but being punted by some dolt that couldn't drive his way out of a paper bag is just too much to tolerate.
If you run up front in SM you are in pretty good company but it is aggressive hard racing. I think that was exactly what was intended & it has worked. Result, actual racing.
Basil- I totally agree with your take. Most SMers appear to be NASCAR wannabes who think contact is all part of the game. There is a place for these drivers and we used to call it the D-Derby (destruction derby). The object to run into each other until everyone else's car dies but yours. I find the vintage racing crowd here in the NW all race with the same common goal, race hard, stay off each other, and keep it on the track to do it ago another day. I'd rather have a cold one with the guy who got past me after a race than spend the next 2 weekends fixing my car after trying to "protect" my line.
Dougie
Basil Exposition wrote: Too bad, really. I'd probably be doing it, too, if it weren't for the experience of my friends. They all still race vintage and, like me, would rather spend time and money maintaining an old car than doing paint and body on a Miata. It may be frustrating to have a weekend end abruptly due to mechanical failure, but being punted by some dolt that couldn't drive his way out of a paper bag is just too much to tolerate.
Very well said and one of the reasons that I'll probably look into some sort of vintage/classic racing once I'm settled in the US. It's the same here in the UK, the entry-level series are fought in such a way that they tend to resemble a demolition derby rather than a race. The classic series drivers tend to be a little more respectful of other people's vehicles.
well i've never raced formally but i can tell you that I did notice the professional courtesy the drivers at the Historic races in Daytona gave each other. This was a refreshing site. Even got me thinking about possibly being able to afford it someday.
I've raced in production racing and at times, in the middle of a gang of Spec Miatas.
My Spridget been hit on every corner by SMs. They are a bit rough. :(
For last few years, I've mostly done vintage racing and for me, it's a lot nicer. I still have a great time, but the other racers give you just a bit more space. It's more about having a good time and trying not to ruin the other guy's day.
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