Volkswagen Camper/Van

Hey, I already know I'm gunna get hate for asking this, but if I were to buy a Volkswagen T2 (or T1 if I can find one for a good deal) would it be possible (or worth the hassle in general) to change the car from gas to an electric motor, (and optimize the brakes and suspension while I'm at it). As I asked earlier, would it be possible or worth it to do this so I could have a more reliable car?

Thanks for your help.

Possible? Sure. What's your skill level and problem solving ability like? I doubt you'll find a bolt-on kit.

Keith Tanner wrote: Possible? Sure. What's your skill level and problem solving ability like? I doubt you'll find a bolt-on kit.

Mine skill level is zero to non, but I have family that can most likely help me if I ever end up going through with this project.

If the goal is just a more reliable car, it'll be a whole lot quicker and probably cheaper to lease a Fiat 500e. If you want something different, take a welding class and start reading up on electric car conversions. The best way to learn is by doing, but it's going to be a lot of learning.

You could reach out to Zelectric. http://www.zelectricmotors.com/

I don't want to be a naysayer with this but isn't the idea behind a camper is to get away for a while and get back? Converting a camper to electric would severely limit range in getting away and getting back. Charging stations? Unless you fill the camper with batteries but then you'd just need a van and not a camper.

wlkelley3 wrote: I don't want to be a naysayer with this but isn't the idea behind a camper is to get away for a while and get back? Converting a camper to electric would severely limit range in getting away and getting back. Charging stations? Unless you fill the camper with batteries but then you'd just need a van and not a camper.

Ya I get what you're saying, I just wanted it to be electric because it would be more "green". Gas engine would be easier (probably I have no idea) for if I wanted to go out camping or something, but couldn't I put like a solar panel on the roof, or do you think it would jest be better to go gas engine (a more reliable, newer engine).

You'll want to do some math on that solar panel. I have one on the roof of my VW camper, and I use it to recharge the battery after running the electric fridge overnight along with some lights. I'm pretty sure you'd need to deploy a fairly large standalone array of panels to get enough juice for a short drive in a day.

Fun reading: "The Martian", by Andy Weir. This is actually addressed at length in the book.

A better gas engine is easy. The vehicle's already set up to run on gas. There are several popular choices, the most common is probably a Subaru.

Keith Tanner wrote: You'll want to do some math on that solar panel. I have one on the roof of my VW camper, and I use it to recharge the battery after running the electric fridge overnight along with some lights. I'm pretty sure you'd need to deploy a fairly large standalone array of panels to get enough juice for a short drive in a day. Fun reading: "The Martian", by Andy Weir. This is actually addressed at length in the book. A better gas engine is easy. The vehicle's already set up to run on gas. There are several popular choices, the most common is probably a Subaru.

I saw a guy put 2 50W solar panels on the top of his VW Westfalia and I wanted to know that would be sufficient power to power a fridge and have power left over to charge the motor. Also I wanted to know (If you guys know) approximately how long it would take to fill a 1kWh battery with 2 50W solar panels.

The math is right there in the question. 1kWh is 1000 Wh. If you're running 2 50W panels, you gather 100W per hour. So 10 hours, assuming perfect efficiency and assuming you're not using any power for anything else. That's a pretty big assumption.

If they're mounted to the roof, you'll have to keep the van in the sun. The pop top is a help if it's hinged at one end like on a T3 (Vanagon), as the efficiency drops pretty rapidly when you lay a panel flat instead of tilting it up. Even a small shadow on one part of the panel can kill the total output. They're a bit weird.

If you are really looking to go "Green" get a diesel and set it up to run on veggie oil.

The solar recharging idea is possible, but you'll need more than a couple of 50W panels. You'll need to set up a small field of panels and be able to leave them going for a few days at a time. More if conditions are not optimal.

As luck would have it, there's a company that sells EV kits for VW's including Type 2 vans: evwest.com. The base kit is $7K plus the battery system (which is not really addressed on their site, oddly enough...). Going by their battery prices, figure on another $10K or more (probably MUCH more) for a battery system. They sell a 24KWh battery for $13,299. That's 24,000 watts. Now think about how long 100 watts worth of panels would take to charge that battery. It would like using a solar condenser to fill a swimming pool.

As a point of comparison, the Tesla Model S is sold with either a 60KWh or 85KWh battery.

So I'll reitterate: if you want to go green, go veggie-diesel.

Right now there is nothing green about electric power. Especially of looking at a vehicle that already exists. Just look into the power production to charge the batteries and the pollution caused by making the batteries in the first place. Electric and Hybrids are great for controlling the source of pollution, but not for reducing it.

Also why a VW camper? Is it some romantic hippie ideal? If so that's fine and I'm on 100% board with you. But understand that the Engineers were stunningly creative in their design of the front crush structure. They ingeniously used the actual occupants as part of the crush structure to save damage from the front wheels back in a front end collision. They knew that there would come a time when no more T1 or T2's were being built, but we keep on popping out disposable humans.

Again, if you want this as a romantic toy and understand that it's fine, but if you think that a T1 or 2 would be a viable high mileage vehicle in heavy traffic think again.

I'd seriously look at a diesel, or flat 4 subaru engine for a VW to put miles on. Or if you want a camper first and foremost I'd look at a different platform.

Please don't take this as I'm anti VW campers, I'm not, I love them. I've spent many many thousands of miles in one as a kid. Probably hundreds of nights sleeping in one, and in my later years I remember sitting in the middle of Kentucky after a tornado had passed through town passing a bottle of Makers Mark around the bewildered occupants. But that doesn't mean I'd want one in modern traffic without a comprehensive external roll cage. I'd consider a Lotus 7 a safer vehicle for daily use.

A bit more playing around with the solar numbers because it's fun. Batteries are usually quoted in Ah, because that takes voltage into account. A 12v 1kWh battery has 83 Ah. It's been shown that a 100W solar panel typically puts out right about 6 A, so that's just under 14 hours to fill.

100W is not hard, I have a 100W panel on the roof of my van. You could easily fit four of them up there on a T3 pop-top, fewer on a T1 or T2 with the vertical pop. But to get that 6A per 100W panel, you need to angle them towards the sun. Figure 400W of panels, perfectly located in full sun, you can fill 83 Ah of batteries in under four hours.

How much range does a 83 Ah battery get you? According to a Chevy Volt enthusiast who posted to Yahoo Answers, that car has an effective battery power of 12KWh at 300V, which is 40 Ah. It'll do 30-35 miles at highway speeds with a slippery body. Figuring that we only discharge our 83Ah battery by 65% or so before recharging, let's give ourselves the same range at secondary road speeds with minimal stopping and starting.

BTW, 83 Ah is equivalent to two Odyssey PC1200s. I run one of those in my camper as the "house battery", to take care of the camper load.

I think Keith has very good recommendations here. Using solar panels to charge the auxilary batteries that power fridge and lights would be good. I grew up around RV's (dad was big RV'er) and I think the VW campers are among the best designed camper-van. The biggest downfall being lack of power.

What kind of camping? Electric car charging stations and RV parks are your two major sources of high power electric hookups available to the public.

A lot of EV folks three to five years ago were putting RV 30 and 50 amp plugs on an EVSE. RV parks were offering a cut rate on the parking and access to their recreational facilities for LEAF owners who weren't staying overnight or using the water and sewer.

Ian F wrote: If you are really looking to go "Green" get a diesel and set it up to run on veggie oil. The solar recharging idea is possible, but you'll need more than a couple of 50W panels. You'll need to set up a small field of panels and be able to leave them going for a few days at a time. More if conditions are not optimal. As luck would have it, there's a company that sells EV kits for VW's including Type 2 vans: evwest.com. The base kit is $7K plus the battery system (which is not really addressed on their site, oddly enough...). Going by their battery prices, figure on another $10K or more (probably MUCH more) for a battery system. They sell a 24KWh battery for $13,299. That's 24,000 watts. Now think about how long 100 watts worth of panels would take to charge that battery. It would like using a solar condenser to fill a swimming pool. As a point of comparison, the Tesla Model S is sold with either a 60KWh or 85KWh battery. So I'll reitterate: if you want to go green, go veggie-diesel.

I didn't even think of veggie-diesel. How does that work, can u use any kind of oil, or could u use like animal grease from bacon or stuff like that?

Adrian_Thompson wrote: I'd seriously look at a diesel, or flat 4 subaru engine for a VW to put miles on. Or if you want a camper first and foremost I'd look at a different platform.

I understand that they are kinda unsafe (kinda really unsafe if in a crash) but no matter what I do once I buy one (a T2 hopefully) I'm gun spit a more modern, more reliable engine in it. I'll probably try to find a BMW engine that will fit or like u said one of the Subaru ones.

wlkelley3 wrote: I think Keith has very good recommendations here. Using solar panels to charge the auxilary batteries that power fridge and lights would be good. I grew up around RV's (dad was big RV'er) and I think the VW campers are among the best designed camper-van. The biggest downfall being lack of power.

I have to agree that Keith has given some great info to help me out with this. With the solar panel thing, I think Keith and you are are right. I'd use them to power/charge a battery that would be used to power the lights and the fridge.

One of my old teachers drives this Chevy van that looks almost exactly like the VW. Idk if it was a camper van like the VW, but the exterior looks like the VW. Does anyone know what that is called?

One of these? 1968 Chevy Van

Or one of these based on a Corvair? Rear, air-cooled flat six cylinder engine.

wlkelley3 wrote: One of these? 1968 Chevy Van

I think it is this model but it is painted bright orange and looks pretty sweet. How do these compare to the T2 VW bus?

In reply to ToxicTurtl3:

A bit larger than the VW. A Chevy, so numerous engine options. The engine is basically in the middle of the van between/behind the front seats, so it chews up some floor space and you need to pay attention to cover insulation and sealing.

Veggie oil diesel can be done in a couple of ways. One way is to have a separate tank with lightly processed (cleaned, mainly) oil which is heated by engine coolant and then switched over for most of driving and then switched back to diesel for the final shut-down (don't want veggie oil to sit in the engine works). The other way is to further refine the veggie oil into bio-diesel. This requires a bit more work, additional equipment and some chemistry. However, the end result is a fuel that can be burned like regular diesel (no additional tank or fuel switching required).

In reply to Ian F:

If I were to do Bio-Diesel how hard would it be to switch back and forth from bio-diesel to normal diesel and back to bio-diesel? Just incase I ran out of one fuel or another.

In reply to ToxicTurtl3:

Bio-diesel is normal diesel as far as the engine is concerned. Sort of like E85 ethanol, you can occasionally find bio-diesel for sale at pumps. The difference is in the base it's refined from. Regular diesel is refined from crude oil, bio-diesel from bio sources: vegetable oil (often used fryer oil), soy oil, peanut oil, and so on. Unlike E85, a diesel engine doesn't need changes to run on bio-sourced fuel the way a gas engine needs adjustments to run on E85.

It's veggie-oil that one has to be careful about. That said, the standard diesel fuel system stays in the car and the engine will run happily on plain diesel if you don't have veggie/fry oil to burn.

Bicycles are MUCH more green.