Which car?

I've been vascilating over buying one of several classic cars. My budget is $6000 for something that can be used immediately and improved as-I-go, or less for a project. Criteria is fun (duh), autocross potential, hardtop, reliable enough for three day events such as the California Melee. I'd like to hear feedback, but am not really looking for suggestions outside of this lot.

Ranked according to current preference:

-Volvo 544

-Corvair Corsa (Probably second gen)

-e30 BMW (Unfortunately not vintage rally eligible yet)

-1st gen Mustang or Falcon

-Karmann Ghia (With an eye towards performance improvements)

-Alfa GTV or Alfetta

You can get quite a lot of Corvair for six grand. That's my vote. That car has all kinds of good looks. Never particularly cared for the sound of an air-cooled VW, so I'd avoid the Karmann.

E30s don't excite me, but they're recent enough that you can do all kinds of stuff to 'em without annoying the faithful.

Can you get a decent first-gen Mustang for that kind of money?

I'm looking at a nice '65 Corsa as soon as the owner and I can get together on schedule:

http://sfbay.craigslist.org/eby/cto/2910383141.html

You're right about Mustangs and GTVs pushing the money envelope, but a nice one might be worth making a sacrifice over:

Mustang:

http://bringatrailer.com/2012/03/19/bat-exclusive-honest-1965-ford-mustang-v8-notchback/

GTV:

http://sfbay.craigslist.org/eby/cto/2908057676.html

Alfetta:

http://sfbay.craigslist.org/sfc/cto/2907900790.html

Since you're throwing autocross potential in there, the E30 would probably top that list for me. But..as Alan pointed out, you can get a really neat Corvair for that money and the Alfetta, to me, is a forgotten gem.

All those are shockingly nice for the price. Wow. I'd worry about parts support and reliability with the Alfas, but I'm not knowledgeable about the cars which amps up my paranoia.

That Corvair looks excellent. I think that's still my pick. I never expected a car on Outlaw wheels would look good, but that car nails it. Hot.

Per: as an aside, I'd think that the 544 might be an autocross sleeper. You guys got so much out of the 122, and the 544's practically the same car, only lighter. What do you think?

Ultimately though, it isn't really about class competitiveness, just FPG (fun per gallon)

If you can find a solid Mustang or GTV in your price range I'd jump on it, as those have the most upside $$ wise. The Falcon would be super cool, but there isn't nearly as much investment upside.

Problem with the Alfetta and GTV will be---rust in the typical Alfa areas--- isn't that everywhere?! That and if the SPICA system has been messed with, it can be a chore to get right.

You may be able to find a good 6cyl notch Mustang, but in order to have much fun with it (or autocross) you'll have to do some modifications. Plenty of parts and support though!

E30 BMWs are fantastic machines. Great handling, robust, reliable. They aren't really "classics" yet, and the shape is the basic 3 box design though. They are probably the "best" car you had listed, but maybe not the best choice for your stated classic car needs.

The Volvo would be killer, if you can find a solid, properly sorted one. I just love the 40s gangster look. This would be high on my list as they are rare, and just damn cool.

I'd probably go with the others who have chimed in with the Corvair. You can buy a VERY nice one for $6K or so, and they can handle well. (see Yenko Corvair Stinger) and I think the post 1965 cars are extremely good looking.

The Ghia would be neat, but I've always preferred Bugs. I've just never been drawn to the Ghia styling. Although the coupes can look pretty menacing after being lowered and cleaned up a bit. You can also still build a strong type-1 motor for very little $$$.

And Alan is dead wrong......an aircooled VW can sound GREAT!

Ha, I guess the only air-cooled vee-dubs I've heard were the ones trolling around my family's farm in Brazil circa the late '80s. Not impressive machines, but they got us around.

I love the California Melee. Events lie it and the Targa California are some of the most fun ways to use a classic sports or GT car. With that in mind I personally like the Karmann Ghia. They are tough and reliable car and you can get a good coupe in your price range. There is also a fair amount of potential upside with a Ghia and great parts support. I know the Porsche guys hate to hear this but they really are a budget 356 with a neat Italian styled body. Here are a few:

1966 Ghia

1968 Ghia in Phoenix

Nice 64 in Bay Area

Nice 68 in Portland

As for the Corvair, there are tons on the market at that price level. They are pretty cheap to run and have great parts support.

Nice 65 Corsa in bay Area

You are not going to find a decent Alfa Romeo 105 series GTV in your price range. Any near that price will require a lot of rust repair.

An Alfetta on the other hand is definitely an option. You should be able to find a nice one for that money though few are left so you will have to look hard. They are less reliable than other cars and have some quirks but are a neat driver and offer the Italian driving experience in a bargain package, though the spiders are more prevalent and as cheap.

Instead of a Volvo 54 how about a 122? they are reliable and fun to drive.

1964 Volvo 122 in Seattle

The veedubs and Volvos are appealing for a variety of reasons - one of which is that few are aware of their performance potential. At a Sears Point vintage event last year featuring Alfas and Volvos, 544s were running mid-pack with GTVs.

I don't know how much patience I have for air-cooled 4s, but if I runs out, a Subbie or Rotary is a (relatively easy) swap away.

122s are common in California, and I could have had my sisters one for free, but they just don't ring my emotional bell. And that's why we do this, right?

Depending on how bad the rust is, the Alfa GTV could be interesting too... except for the awful color... I'd jump on that Alfetta Sports Sedan if I were in the market for another mid-life crisis...

You nailed it Kreb........this is not a rational hobby, it is an emotional one! Get the car that "trips your trigger" and you'll never regret it.

well you'll regret it every now and again when the car breaks down, but once it's running again you'll forget all about that......until the next time!

I'm a Volvo guy, so of course the 544 gets my vote. $6K will buy you a very nice one, but the problem is finding one in good condition for sale. People who have them tend to keep them.

Also, be aware that it's not the same car as a 122S with a different body. You're looking at kingpins and trunnions in the front suspension rather than upper control arms, drum brakes all around, and an overdrive transmission won't fit without sheet metal mods. Clutch and brake pedals are bottom mounted, while the gas pedal hangs, making heel-and-toe downshifts problematic. The gas tank only holds eight gallons, if even that much.

All that being said, it is 200 pounds lighter than the Amazon, it's more aerodynamic than it looks (and more stable at speed than the Amazon or 1800), and there's a lot of performance potential with proven mods. Even stock, it runs away from a lot of contemporary sports cars.

If you can find one, try driving it. The experience is quite different from the Amazon -- see if you like it better.

Oooh...those are all great choices! I guess it depends on which one you think you might enjoy the most.

I kinda like the idea of the Volvo, but I also think the Karmann Ghia could be a lot of fun, too. I've heard that Jack Raby does some great things with a type-4 VW engine, and I've heard of people using them in their Porsche 914's, and VW Beetles...so why not in a Ghia, which is one of the nicest looking cars in the old VW air-cooled stable, IMO...

I also have developed a bit of a soft-spot for some of the old Italian cars, and the Alfas could be a pretty fun choice as well. Haha...or build yourself a Lancia Stratos, which could be lots of fun, but would likely run you over your $6G limit.

Actually, as another possibility...I'm not sure how much it would be to build a Porsche 550 Spyder replica (probably too much), but that might be another possible option.

Either way, good luck with your choice!

I say Corvair Corsa for $6k. Clark's Corvairs Parts now sells a fuel injection set-up for these cars using factory GM parts FWIW.

I've owned two Alfettas, like them and would own another. The Alfetta Sedan is pretty rusty. Head on over to alfabb.com and check the Classifieds for more info and pics.

There was decent GTV on alfabb.com for sale at a very reasonable $3950. It was sold quickly with many offers on the table that the owner will never get to, so they're out there, but prices on most Alfas have jumped a bunch in the last year or so.

Thanks so much for the thoughts. That EFI kit for the corvair is a screaming deal. I'd like to see a better intake manifold on it, but otherwise, WOW.

I've owned a 544 and Falcon. Loved them both for different reasons. The Ghia seems like it's so very mod fiendly and what a beautiful body!

e30s are great, but their current wave of popularity makes good ones pricier than they were 10 years ago! And I can't run with the vintage crowd.

Alfas and Vairs I've only admired from afar. The Alfetta's are amongst the prettiest of the box-style of car design. I'm going to check out the Corsa Saturday morning. will check back!

Off the radar is the Falcon that you mentioned. All the same support as a Mustang but with a sleeper appeal. In road racing trim, these look outstanding to me.

Cheers Ron

I'll just leave this Corvair Spyder parked somewhere around here...

I'm tempted to look at that myself but I need fewer, not more cars.

I have a Volvo and an E30 (and a '72 GT6).

E30 prices have definitely gone up for nice ones sicne they are getting harder to find. I paid a little under $5K for mine 2 years ago and I wouldn't take much less than that for the car if I were to sell it now. One downside to E30 ownership is the community for it. Unlike any of the other cars mentioned, a lot of E30 owners are kids and community can be... trying... at times. I have mine classic-insured and plan to get classic tags for it asap. My '88 car is only a year away from being eligible for classic events with a 25 years old rule.

That said, my choice would be a Volvo. Like Phil, I would probably look more for an 1800 or a 122 than a 544, but I just like those cars more. With some patience, you can still find a driver-quality 1800 within your budget.

In truth, though, I'd take just about any of the cars listed except maybe the Ghia. Partly because of this VW for sale at the local Lotus dealer (a little above your price cap, however):

http://www.princetonlotus.com/ViewClassic.aspx?id=382

Oddly enough, my plans for my GT6 are to build it up as more of a comfort-touring car.

Checked out the '65 Corsa this morning. Cheap paint job, a few rust bubbles, but mechanically sound, good trim and interior, Runs nicely. This was my first experience with a Corvair and I had some distinct impressions:

-They really are attractive cars, and with stock suspension and 205/70-14s have a very pleasing stance. Great dashboard too.

-Decent pep. Not a muscle car by any means, but it should be able to dice well with sporty cars of the same era.

-Typical american car/45 YO car vagueness in the handling, but with the low cg, full independent suspension and light weight, I got the distinct feeling that it could be made into a great handler.

-The engine compartment's the easiest to service as any car I've had save the Sevenesque.

I'm pretty taken by it. Seems like (Covairs in General) are a vintage bargain compared to what one pays for some cars.

True on all counts. When I drove Tim and Margie's Corvair, I noticed that same sort of vagueness in the steering and wondered if that couldn't be repaired by replacing it with a modern steering rack. Some things are sloppy about that car, but it's still way fun to drive.

And after the second time changing that fan belt, it becomes a 5-minute operation. Not bad at all.

A lot of the numbness in late 'Vairs comes from GM's desire that the car feel like a big car with power steering and no oversteer characteristics- hence the 5 turn lock-to-lock steering, positive front camber and not a whole lot of caster in stock alignment. Bolt on a set of quick steering arms, crank in some positive caster and a bit of negative camber all around, particularly in the front, and the car will come alive. Good shocks help a ton, too.

Biggest problem with the stock engine in an autocross situation (other than classing) will be flooding of the stock carbs (assuming that it's a 140/4-carb engine). There are cheap mods that can help this, check out the book formerly known as How to Hotrod Your Corvair (new version has a new title these days, can't remember it offhand, but I think it was redone by Seth Emerson, who is very knowlegable about setting up competitive Corvairs - Clark's has it).

At higher revs, it's possible for the air pressure inside the "turkey roaster" (air shroud) to blow off a spark plug wire, so for competitive events, a bit of duct tape where the boot attaches to the fan shroud can be helpful.

Great cars, we ran a turbo (carefully built, but nearly stock engine)in SCCA stage rallies back in the '70s and '80s reasonably successfully, considering we had no real budget and we weren't trying to compete with the Buffums, Millens and Bloks of the world. Got a couple of top 10 finishes at Big Bend Bash in Texas, a second at a divisional event in Colorado, and about a 15th or so out of around 75 entries at a national event in Arizona.