frenchyd said:
That’s a lot of information. Thank you.
Out of brevity, not rudeness, why did GM dry sump instead of accusump?
Your graph doesn’t allow for the time recharging the accudump while also feeding the engine requirements, does it? Or are stock oil pumps big enough to do both at the same time?
- An accusump is it's own technology and patent, meaning GM has no control over it.
- They aren't the same thing. Accusumps cover an inherent weakness with a wet sump during hard turns and breaking by adding "artificial" oil pressure and storing and injecting some as needed. Dry sumps avoid that problem by their design.
Not gonna lie dude, it sounds more like you're trying to justify this to yourself and not to anyone else. Considering I've seen these V12s go for $700 off CL, why aren't you making one? They use Chevy 350 parts and share bolt patterns- why not at least, make some kind of running plan to assemble this?
In reply to infinitenexus :
Completely understandable tho- the 302 at it's core is still an engine made in the 1950s with their manufacturing, understanding and technology. The 4.6 was built with far more modern engineering and tooling.
In reply to GIRTHQUAKE :
Regarding GM and Accusump , the principle behind an Accusump is dirt simple. At the volume GM makes stuff they can buy a knock off for very little more than the cost of manufacture. Significantly less than they are sold for.
With regard to the function of Accusump. They do not store pressure. They store oil to feed the oil pump when braking and cornering uncover the oil pickup and the oil pump starts to run dry. The oil pump provides the pressure.
Mind you I’m not saying that Accusumps don’t work. They work well for short events like timed autocross etc. However hard braking from high speed leading into High G cornering are beyond their capability especially when used in endurance racing.
I’m not sure what you are saying. Do you think I can sell my V12’s for $700? Each? Please let me know of any buyers. At one time a few years ago I had 50 good ones ( well 48 and 2 junkers) i couldn’t find any buyers and wound up selling them to the scrap metal dealers.
What about a V12 has a 350 bolt pattern and parts?
Well you're talking about Jaguar V12s, right? For the XJS from late 70s to early 90s they used a GM TH400 trans, and have the same bore and stroke as a 350 so they can take the same pistons, if memory serves.
EDIT: Also, the $700 line is about just messing with stuff, which is based on the rest of this comment. If they're cheap and if it uses 350 pistons, why not for kicks make an engine build plan and cheaply assemble one like you're talking about?
In reply to GIRTHQUAKE :
Dude just stop. We about to go down this road for the 100th time.
In reply to yupididit :
Surely you haven't tired of it yet.
GIRTHQUAKE said:
Well you're talking about Jaguar V12s, right? For the XJS from late 70s to early 90s they used a GM TH400 trans, and have the same bore and stroke as a 350 so they can take the same pistons, if memory serves.
EDIT: Also, the $700 line is about just messing with stuff, which is based on the rest of this comment. If they're cheap and if it uses 350 pistons, why not for kicks make an engine build plan and cheaply assemble one like you're talking about?
the Transmission they use is a GM Turbo 400* but it is not a Chevy bolt pattern. It is unique to Jaguar.
* After mid 1977. Prior to that it was the Borg Warner Transmission although a few 4 speed manual cars were made and sold in 1975 but they used the Jaguar gear box
The Bore of a V12 is 3&1/2 inches ( a little over ) and the stroke is 2&3/4. Inches. While some Chevy sized parts have been adapted to fit they are not a straight bolt in.
The bolt hole pattern of the wheels is the same as the Corvette though.
If you are asking why I’m not building one to go racing. Well I am. Progress is slow, but steady on a retirement income and with other obligations it will be a while before it’s on the track for testing.
But if you’d like to hear the scream of s V12 at racing speed, maybe even drive it, stay in touch 
Did you know that a West coast team already built and raced an xj12 in lemons? It was a cool car, just too expensive to race.
In reply to wvumtnbkr :
Yes I do know. Interesting car. Too bad they selected the HE engine which was designed to meet California pollution standards and get good fuel mileage.
The HE uses a stratified charge which is as lean a charge as they can get to fire. But it gets close to 20 mpg when driven in a civilized fashion.
That stratified charge at sustained peak RPM will blow head gaskets. Which is what they suffered through. Twice in one race.
As for expensive, I suspect not having it reliable is the real problem. From what I read about that group they were clever and talented. They also raced a Grey Market Mercedes Benz they begged the organizers to crush. Sounds like a fun bunch.
In reply to yupididit :
Haven't been here long and even I know this happens every time.
Stampie said:
In reply to yupididit :
Surely you haven't tired of it yet.
Shamefully it still entertains me a bit lol
If anyone ever needs to see a box of bad ideas, look up a few posts. It's red.
That being said I do a lot of (funky) efi stuff and I'd be interested to help out once it's that far along.
In reply to Paul_VR6 :
I’m assuming you’re talking about the Burgundy Jaguar?
The stripping it down and putting it on the rotisserie phase is straight forward, stuff I’m comfortable doing. ( and had great success in the past)
What I desperately need help with is that Funky EFI stuff. Until I resolve that I’ll do nothing except accumulate stuff like I’m doing and plan.
Should I modify the existing Lucas stuff that works now?
Switch to the megasquirt system I have sitting in its delivery box?
Buy a newer megasquirt system?
Buy 2 systems from a junkyard TrailBlazer Envoy etc and adapt them?
What will each cost me to completion? I can do the mechanical bits, install, wire, hook up, check, diagnose some issues.
But the guidance required to decide, to select this sensor over that one. Where the oxygen sensor needs to be. What instruments are required and what spares to have on hand
I feel as if this is being made overly-complicated.
Gut it
Cage it
Make sure the suspension and brakes are up to snuff
Let the engine breathe and be able to cool down
Drive it
Everyone has already said ~3000lbs and ~300hp is more than enough to be competitive. More than that, you're running in to issues. Less than that, you're still running in to issues, but you can go for longer until you deal with them.
yupididit said:
In reply to frenchyd :
Just Chevy v8 swap it
That is the proven upgrade path for Jaguars.
Stampie said:
yupididit said:
In reply to frenchyd :
Just Chevy v8 swap it
That is the proven upgrade path for Jaguars.
Then why not just buy a Corvette or Camero?
But no the proven upgrade is the Jaguar V8 if you want new. Stuffing the wrong brand engine into a Jaguar is called a Lump.
FuzzWuzzy said:
I feel as if this is being made overly-complicated.
Gut it
Cage it
Make sure the suspension and brakes are up to snuff
Let the engine breathe and be able to cool down
Drive it
Everyone has already said ~3000lbs and ~300hp is more than enough to be competitive. More than that, you're running in to issues. Less than that, you're still running in to issues, but you can go for longer until you deal with them.
So tell me how to get to 300 horsepower then since every power adder will cost more points than just a turbo will? PS you start at 242 horsepower.
frenchyd said:
Stampie said:
yupididit said:
In reply to frenchyd :
Just Chevy v8 swap it
That is the proven upgrade path for Jaguars.
Then why not just buy a Corvette or Camero?
But no the proven upgrade is the Jaguar V8 if you want new. Stuffing the wrong brand engine into a Jaguar is called a Lump.
Nah the LS engine is the best upgrade you can do to a v12 xjs. If I had an xjs I'd LS or 2jz swap it.
frenchyd said:
Stampie said:
yupididit said:
In reply to frenchyd :
Just Chevy v8 swap it
That is the proven upgrade path for Jaguars.
Then why not just buy a Corvette or Camero?
But no the proven upgrade is the Jaguar V8 if you want new. Stuffing the wrong brand engine into a Jaguar is called a Lump.
I don’t look good with a mullet and not enough chest hair to properly frame gold chains.
yupididit said:
In reply to frenchyd :
Just Chevy v8 swap it
I thought a Ford's front distributor was easier to work with. Unless we mean LT or LS here.
In reply to yupididit :
Why on earth would you do that? You don’t put a Chevy engine in a 1970’s-80’s Cadillac, Lincoln, or Imperial do you?
They weigh about the same.. same sort of technology. Same issues of complexity and reliability.
Swapping engines won’t change most of those issues.
In reply to frenchyd :
LS swapped Cadillacs are a very common thing and depending on the Cadillac I would do it everyday of the week and twice on Saturday.
frenchyd said:
In reply to yupididit :
Why on earth would you do that? You don’t put a Chevy engine in a 1970’s-80’s Cadillac, Lincoln, or Imperial do you?
They weigh about the same.. same sort of technology. Same issues of complexity and reliability.
Swapping engines won’t change most of those issues.
I'd put an LS in any of those. Light, small, simple, powerful, efficient, and plentiful.
Daylan C said:
yupididit said:
In reply to frenchyd :
Just Chevy v8 swap it
I thought a Ford's front distributor was easier to work with. Unless we mean LT or LS here.
Jaguar’s that have distributors have them on top and in the middle. Nothing covers them up. No plastic air cleaner or trim.
