$10k sports sedan...

I'm looking at picking up a sedan with manual transmission for street duty, but would still be fun to take to an occasional track/autocross day.

Ideally, I'd like to buy something for $6-8k and spend $2-3k in upgrades/fixes because I know these vehicles are going to be older and probably need a little love.

Wants:
- 4 doors or at least comfortable for 2 adults and 2 kids (I think we'll drive it more if 4 door)
- manual transmission (non-negotiable) 
- fun, good handling chassis
- want to keep the car fairly stock'ish (wheels, tires, shocks, maybe light springs, brake pads)
- 20+ mpg a plus
- non-premium fuel would be nice, but not required
- quick enough on track to not be a road block like my old NA Miata in the instructor group at VIR...

Here's my running list...

BMW E46 330i
BMW E90 325-330i
Subaru WRX
Acura TSX
VW GTI
Audi A4
Civic Si
S197 Mustang GT (coupe, I know)
8th Gen Civic Si

WHAT ELSE?! Any advice is appreciated.

SI, either generation. Drive it more, fix it less. 

In reply to Floating Doc (Forum Supporter) :

Great motto. I would add in G35/G37. 

Mustang or a Civic

I know you said sedan, but I've noticed the price of Fiesta STs has really been dropping. For your budget I suspect you could get one that doesn't need anything, other than better pads and maybe better tires. It would likely be newer than the other options you've listed.

I really like mine, it's really fun, has a good sensation of speed, practical and economical. It only gives up a few hp when running 87 octane. Parts are readily available from other models (engine is is same as the escape) or regular fiestas. 

2nd Gen Mazda 3 or Mazda Speed 3

It's been a while since I was in an S197, but from memory I wouldn't call them full time four seaters. 

I wouldn't expect the rear seats in a S197 to be used for anything other than children of single digit ages.

I'll also help your list by suggesting no German cars. And that's from a guy who used to be exclusively European cars.  Just not worth the endless headaches.

Another vote for Mazdas. They are so overlooked.

RWD: E90

AWD: E90

FWD: Civic si

I'll vote E90.  My 328xi 6spd (AWD inoperable) has a comfy back seat, gets 30mpg highway/26 suburban, has 292k on the original unopened motor and transmission, still sees occasional track duty.

If you go e90 get a 330i. 

In reply to dpspeed :

Your final words were: 
WHAT ELSE?! Any advice is appreciated.

I see that Mustang is on your list but Camaro is not.  The Mustang never offered a 4 door but the Camaro kinda did...

Cadillac ATS is a small sedan (and coupe) that is a chassis-mate to the final generation of Camaro.  Rear drive, 2.0L turbo that could be had with a 6 speed manual.  www.fueleconomy.gov say it was rated for 19/23/29 but does say it only calls for 87 octane!  
Think of it as Cadillac builds a BMW 3-series competitor.  If you're a long legged driver the rear seat may still be cramped for adults...maybe.  

A sample in Georgia:  '14 w/83k asking $11k

The Cadillac is definitely worth considering 

GLI or Legacy GT? Maybe you can find a Lancer GT or GTS (same thing)

OHSCrifle said:

If you go e90 get a 330i. 

328i + 3-stage DISA intake manifold & tune= 330i 

I agree that the 330i is a bit of an easier place to start due to not having to swap the manifold, but it's a pretty easy swap and limiting the OP to only the 330i means he can only shop for a 2006 model year, which really limits his options. Much easier to find a 328i and just swap in the manifold + tune. 

I think the previous posts have pretty much covered it. If you go E90, buy one from someone who cared for the car. This is of course true for every car, but seems especially true for BMWs. 
 

Id prefer a Civic Si for this use case, but good luck finding a nice one with low miles that isn't trashed. I never see them without a billion miles, a bunch of terrible mods, and a clean title. For that reason, the Mazda 3 would be my pick, but I get they're not as sexy or fast as that ATS or a E90. But you could save the money for mods.
 

Man, I really wanted a manual ATS, but i ended up with the E92 because the PO was a close friend who is meticulous on maintenance. 

In reply to Snrub :

Ohh, I forget about FiSTs. I really would like to drive one of these, they are around $10k and would be fun with shocks/wheels/tires! I had a MK6 GTI and it was just meh...I think its because it was DSG the car just did everything so well that it was sort of numb vs knift edge handling. 

I'm just slightly worried about these things on a track (not major concern) because they are SO grippy + higher CG = roll vs slid...probably an unfounded concern. Fuel mileage would be a MAJOR plus (DD F250 7.3L @ 10.5 mpg :( )

Good idea, thanks!

In reply to CyberEric :

Sort of my thought on the E90. I've got a buddy who has a 328 set up perfectly for $1500 (wheels/tires/dsa intake...needs a motor. Need to find out what a motor would cost...even if it was $3-4k might be worth it! His son drove it and isn't a car guy, light came on, drove it home and blew head gasket...

I just don't love the look of the Civics...but everyone seems to love the Si's, so I feel like I need to drive one.

Either way, my daughter (13) will probably learn how to drive in this car, will probably get to autocross and possibly a track day in it...

The other wrench is my neighbor has 2 E46 330s (him & son) and is setting them up with springs/shocks/wheels/tires and he's got a lift and knows how to work on them, so he would be a really valuable resource with an older E46. E46s are just getting hard to find...

In reply to John Welsh :

Interesting...no clue about this car! That's why I came to the GRM forum! Will have to check these out. 

When I was shopping for a 4 door to replace my C6 (after we added offspring to the mix), I really wanted an ATS-V. The backseat wasn't going to cut it (that's first-hand, me taking our carseat with us to test drive one). It would physically fit, but at the expense of the seat in front of it. Your size and backseat needs may be different enough for it to work?

I know you're not shopping the "V", but if I recall correctly it was a 2016 I test drove, and I'd assume the interior dimensions would be the same between V trim and base. 

And I like the German choices. Have had a few Audi/VW (currently still have 1) and BMW (still have a bunch, mostly in pieces) and I think I've just grown used to the sometimes bizarrely complicated maintenance/repair procedures.

Can also offer that I rode with an instructor in his newish Mazda speed 3 wagon at VIR with minimal mods and it was a blast. I don't know enough about them to know where his car would fall vs your budget, nor where there are generational breaks, etc. 

dpspeed said:

In reply to Snrub :

Ohh, I forget about FiSTs. I really would like to drive one of these, they are around $10k and would be fun with shocks/wheels/tires! I had a MK6 GTI and it was just meh...I think its because it was DSG the car just did everything so well that it was sort of numb vs knift edge handling. 

I'm just slightly worried about these things on a track (not major concern) because they are SO grippy + higher CG = roll vs slid...probably an unfounded concern. Fuel mileage would be a MAJOR plus (DD F250 7.3L @ 10.5 mpg :( )

Good idea, thanks!

Before I bought I also drove a 2019 GTI. The GTI was much more refined, nicer interior, etc. It was much less fun on the street, too "adult" for me. :) The FiST is a great example of slow car fast. A lot of luxury oriented cars can be fun (say the E90), but they do filter out some sensation and road feedback. The FiST is a little "crude".

Of your list the FiST should have the lowest fuel costs if you run 87, second lowest to the civic si if you don't. My FiST seems to consume front tires, but that may be related to the user.

I think there are a couple of examples of people rolling their FiST in autoX, but I don't think I've heard of any track rollovers. I think you will want to be mindful of the impact of suspension modifications. Eg. Maybe don't do progressive springs.

amg_rx7 (Forum Supporter) said:

The Cadillac is definitely worth considering 

The 2.0t eats the #4 piston when pushed hard, even with premium fuel.

On the other hand, every Camaro I have seen with a windowed block was a 3.6, and there were a few.

FWIW, when I bought my S60R, the PO said only one other person was interested, and she declined when she couldn't put three carseats in the back.  . That poor fragile leather!

I would look at the 2012 to 14 Acura TL also.  It got rid of the horrible beak the 09-11 cars had.  Can be had awd or fwd.  the Awd can be had with a 6 speed.  I recently sold my 6 speed Awd on cars and bids for just shy of 14k as they command a bit of a premium.  I will be selling my wife's 2014 fwd this summer.  It currently has about 80k miles.  It has been trouble free for 10 years but she wanted a new Audi so as the adage goes happy wife happy like.  I would highly recommend though.