10lbs Increase for Wheels & Tires: Worth it?

So, I'm looking around at wheels in 15" for the Starlet because 14" everything is getting hard to find.

I'm looking at a weight increase of about 10lbs per corner by going up to 15" wheels and race rubber. Of course, that's with the cheapest wheels I can find which happen to be steel Aero Wheels at $200 for a set of four. I can drop the overall weight increase to 5lbs per corner if I man up and spend $600 for a set of nicer wheels.

The car weighs 1800lbs and has about 80bhp. Any weight change is noticeable. What's your opinions on this situation?

Thanks JP

Look harder for 14" tires. Seriously, heavy wheels on a light car are like trying to run in construction boots.

What is the bolt pattern? You should be able to find 15" wheels from some OE fit that aren't scandalously heavy or expensive. If it's 4 on 4.5" then there are many options for you as long as you can live with a 40-45mm offset.

I hate heavy wheels. You feel it immediately, even in a big powerful car.

Should be 4x100 bolt pattern. Nothing on your local CL?

Dont, one lb of wheel weight equal 4 extra lbs on the car (unsprung vs sprung weight) not to mention rotating mass. So your looking at 160 extra felt lbs. whats the offset differece between a miata or civic? Should be a ton of options out there. I recall from buying 14in miata tires last year that there arent a ton of options, its either round and blacks or extreme autox/track tires. Which isnt a bad thing haha. Speaking of my old miata, (10 extra horse power and maybe 200lbs heavier), i got some nice looking 15" wheels for it, it looked great! But was so numb i took them off and sold them to just ride around on stockers. They were that bad and were only 4lbs per wheel heavier

Craigslist MINI wheels. Some of the 15's are under 15lbs.

Cooper wheel weights

For my miata, I got some proline's from Pepboys, was 260 for the set because they had a buy 3 get one free. The wheels are 2.5lbs heavier than stock daisy's, but the Dunlop Direzza DZ102s I put on weigh less than the generic all seasons on my stock wheels, so it almost evened out. I don't notice a difference swapping them back and forth.

Those stock wheels must be awful light if you'll be adding that much weight.

I've only done lighter wheels than stock and then switched back to the heavier stock for winter. I don't like the feel of heavier wheels on a car.

Aren't some stock Miata wheels like 10 lbs or something?

Bolt pattern is 4x114.3. The fwd and MKI MR2 Toyota's are the 4x100. These are the Toyota four lug rwd hubs. Current wheels are in the 15lbs area according to the interwebs.

thatsnowinnebago wrote: Aren't some stock Miata wheels like 10 lbs or something?

The options that came on 1.8s (94-97) range from 10-11 lbs. Special BBS as low as 9.6 But they're a different bolt pattern. I can't think of a vehicle off the top of my head with 4x114. Maybe subarus?

FWIW, the Prolines I have weigh 15.3 lbs each, and have holes for 4x100 and 4x114

revrico wrote: I can't think of a vehicle off the top of my head with 4x114. Maybe subarus?

A lot of Mazdas, most 4 lug Toyotas (except front drive Corolla), practically all 4 lug Nissans except for a few Sentras, a lot of Mitsubishis, some SAABs, a lot of Hyundais and Kias (see Mitsubishi) but you need to be careful because they have a TINY pilot bore, pre-Mustang II 4 lug Mustangs...

It is an incredibly common bolt pattern.

My RX-7 (FC 4 lug front, GSL-SE rear) uses it, and I have wheels from Lancer OZ Rally, Nissan Altima, S13 240SX, some Hyundai thing that a friend's wife used to own, Honda Accord (high offset, no fit on front)... no Mazda wheels though My Volvo uses the same pattern, being based on the same chassis as a certain Mitsubishi, and all of the wheels that fit the RX-7 will fit it and vice-versa. I plan on buying two replacement Volvo wheels to replace the bent ones and relegating the bent ones to rally tire duty.

40lbs of rotating, unsprung weight is bad juju. I would spend even more money to avoid the 5 lb option even if I had to have custom wheels made.

Tirerack house brand TR Motorsport had some very light 15" options that weren't too expensive.

The ones on my E30 are 11.5lbs and 15x8... But 5x120. The must have the 4x114 though.. It's very common.

I wouldn't and didn't do it. I wanted new wheels and tires for my Outback. Really wanted BFG AT T/A K02 tires. But even with buying very expensive lightweight wheels the combination would end up 10#/wheel heavier than stock.

So I got Sparco wheels and Yokohama tires which are the same weight as stock and saved me ~$700 at the same time.

GRM did a test of the impact of wheel weight on a Miata. The found 12lbs per corner difference impacted the lap time on a short road course by ~3/10ths of a second. Are the new wheels wider than your current wheels? If so you'd likely gain back all of the difference and then some.

In reply to Snrub:

In this case, a Miata, any Miata, is much heavier and more powerful...

Are you going to race it? Anywhere? Yes? Then join NASA for $45 and then buy a set of Konig wheels with you nifty NASA discount.

Knurled wrote:

revrico wrote: I can't think of a vehicle off the top of my head with 4x114. Maybe subarus?

A lot of Mazdas, most 4 lug Toyotas (except front drive Corolla), practically all 4 lug Nissans except for a few Sentras, a lot of Mitsubishis, some SAABs, a lot of Hyundais and Kias (see Mitsubishi) but you need to be careful because they have a TINY pilot bore, pre-Mustang II 4 lug Mustangs... It is an incredibly common bolt pattern. My RX-7 (FC 4 lug front, GSL-SE rear) uses it, and I have wheels from Lancer OZ Rally, Nissan Altima, S13 240SX, some Hyundai thing that a friend's wife used to own, Honda Accord (high offset, no fit on front)... no Mazda wheels though My Volvo uses the same pattern, being based on the same chassis as a certain Mitsubishi, and all of the wheels that fit the RX-7 will fit it and vice-versa. I plan on buying two replacement Volvo wheels to replace the bent ones and relegating the bent ones to rally tire duty.

I knew they were common, but didn't realize that common. There's lots of lightish options available there. Everything I've ever needed to deal with has been Miata, Jbody, 80s VW/bmw, and pickup trucks, so not much experience in that size.

In reply to Hal:

I just want to say, i really like the look of your subaru on those wheels. That is all

13 inch race rubber is available (assuming you're talking proper race rubber and not 200tw stuff) and 13 inch wheels are even lighter than 14's.

On an 80hp Starlet why are you using 14" wheels?

My Datsun 1200 is 1684lbs (overbuilt cage) with 105-110 RWHP and I'm using 185/60-13s. The car is competitive at Autocross and vintage racing. My competition in Autocross is in a Starlet that uses 13" wheels. My wheels and tires weigh 24lbs (cheap cast aluminum wheel with Hoosier Vintage TDs). Up until 3 years ago my car was sporting 80 whp and I can't picture putting 4 15" flywheels on the car.

With these really low horsepower cars (a Spec Miata is a rocket ship), what lateral grip you gain using a 200+ wide tire will be offset by the greater rolling resistance and the power required to accelerate the extra weight.

With the 185/60-13s on my car it is a bit skatey mid corner but carries so much more exit it speed than a 195 or 205. I use Hoosier TDs now and before that I bought Spec Racer Ford take offs. I'd think you'll want a radial (Hoosier is bias ply).

So my long winded answer is; No do not use 15s, go back to a 13" wheel if they fit. This is especially true on a street car for the reasons I've already mentioned. With 80hp low rolling resistance and making the most of accelerating off corners is important.

Tom

4x114.3 was the stock pattern for my old GVR4. A common upgrade was to swap in the wheel hubs from a DSM to get 5x114.3 which then unlocked a whole slew of aftermarket options. Is that an option for your car? The 16x8 stock FD wheels are 5x114.3 and are said to weigh 14lbs each.

EvanR wrote: Craigslist MINI wheels.

Oh shoot. I thought the Starlet was 4x100. I'm sorry. MINI wheels won't help.

On an 80hp Starlet why are you using 14" wheels? My Datsun 1200 is 1684lbs (overbuilt cage) with 105-110 RWHP and I'm using 185/60-13s. The car is competitive at Autocross and vintage racing. My competition in Autocross is in a Starlet that uses 13" wheels. My wheels and tires weigh 24lbs (cheap cast aluminum wheel with Hoosier Vintage TDs). Up until 3 years ago my car was sporting 80 whp and I can't picture putting 4 15" flywheels on the car. With these really low horsepower cars (a Spec Miata is a rocket ship), what lateral grip you gain using a 200+ wide tire will be offset by the greater rolling resistance and the power required to accelerate the extra weight. With the 185/60-13s on my car it is a bit skatey mid corner but carries so much more exit it speed than a 195 or 205. I use Hoosier TDs now and before that I bought Spec Racer Ford take offs. I'd think you'll want a radial (Hoosier is bias ply). So my long winded answer is; No do not use 15s, go back to a 13" wheel if they fit. This is especially true on a street car for the reasons I've already mentioned. With 80hp low rolling resistance and making the most of accelerating off corners is important.

I'd love to run 13s but upgrading to a Corolla GTS front strut, hub, steering arms, control arms, in order to lose the nightmarish sway bar that doubled as a caster rod required going to 14" wheels because of the larger rotors and calipers that come with the Corolla assembly.

Are you going to race it? Anywhere? Yes? Then join NASA for $45 and then buy a set of Konig wheels with you nifty NASA discount.

I'm going to race it everywhere I can. How much of a discount would I be getting?