10th Gen Civic Si--weak clutches?

So my 2020 Civic Si has about 35K miles on it and the clutch has started slipping.  I have put 100+ autox runs on it, a few with newbies co-driving, but that's far fewer runs than other cars I've autocrossed. I usually get 150K out of my clutches on my modern cars. Anyway, I did some googling and searching on the Honda forums and it looks like the clutch is a weak point on these cars.  I know a few others on this forum have 10th gen Sis. Has anyone else had clutch issues?  

I'm only at 11k miles but my clutch seems okay.  It does seem soft.  I fear the balance between light and easy placing comfort over performance might be the culprit.  I've read a lot on civicx that a clutch upgrade is nearly a must.

Daughter dated kid with '18 Civic Si - 50,000 and no problem.  Brother needed clutch on his '19 at 20,000.   Knucklehead or real problem?

In reply to Datsun310Guy :

No idea.  I just keep reading about early clutch replacements and lots of posts on how the new clutch transformed the car. I know a lot of people do not drive a manual transmission well, but I suspect Carl is quite capable.  

Do these have one of those 40# flywheels or a clutch delay? 

In reply to Slippery :

32# dual mass flywheel.  That sounds great for people that don't drive a standard often but potentially bad for disc life.  

AnthonyGS (Forum Supporter) said:

In reply to Datsun310Guy :

 I suspect Carl is quite capable.  

LOL - hopefully it's clear I'm calling the boyfriend's brother a knucklehead  and not Carl.  

In reply to AnthonyGS (Forum Supporter) :

Honda did the same thing with the AP2 S2000. They went from a flywheel that was around ~11#s to one that was almost 30#. They also added the clutch delay valve. 

The delay valve can be easily removed and you can change to an AP1 flywheel. This being a K20, there has to be a factory K20 that uses a lighter flywheel. I would search for that. 

I am weary of aftermarket flywheels. I have a Toda in my S2000, and it has worked fine though. 

Thanks for the comments everyone. It does look like these are a weak point for the car. I doubt it's me--as I said in the original post, I usually get 150K out of a clutch.

I'm probably going to put a stock clutch in it again so it stays legal in GS.   Normally, I'd put a Honda clutch in, but maybe a stock aftermarket is a better bet since the Honda clutch is letting people down. A quick call to NAPA suggested the aftermarket may not have a lot of stock clutch choices as they don't show one yet.

I'll keep you all posted as this progresses.

I only had 10K miles on my 2020 Si when I sold it so no clutch issues.  However, I went through two axle shaft bearings.  It left a nice pool of grease on the under tray and sprayed it all over the engine bay.  This also seemed to be a common failure point for 10th gens.  Once at 7K miles and again at 10K when I sold the car.

Update:  I want to stick with a stock-style clutch and I don't see anything in the aftermarket yet, so I'm putting another Honda clutch in it and sticking with the dual-mass flywheel.  I'm hoping I don't need a new flywheel as they're about $600.

I am going to delete the clutch delay. I've never liked the 1-2 shift and always wondered if the delay was putting excessive wear on the clutch.

I'll report back when the work is done.

Carl 

The delay valve is definitely not helping. 

I found the shifting much improved when I removed it from my S2000. O think removing it is a step in the right direction. 

Interesting thoughts about the clutch delay valve and clutch wear.  The guys in the VW community usually take it out.  When I did my turbo/clutch upgrade on my AWD '19 Sportwagen, I left it in.  Softening the hit to the drivetrain on an AWD car with sticky summer tires seemed like a good idea.

In truth, I don't feel like it impedes anything - maybe Honda's delay more?  Or maybe I'm just not sensitive enough?  On the rare occasion I shift 1-2 hard, it will still chirp a front tire and make me think I probably shouldn't do that too often.  :)

On my car, the delay seems way too long, especially on the 1-2 shift. Since I bought the car, I thought, this isn't good for the clutch. But I figured Honda had done its work to make sure the clutches would still last, which the internet and I disagree with.

I still love the car, but I'm disappointed about this. I had an Accord that went nearly 250K on its clutch. My 8th gen Si went 190K.

I'm just thinking out loud here, but is it possible to modify a delay valve to be a much shorter delay?  I mean I get it, everyone who drives a sports car wants instant shifts, because that = best performance (usually).  With that said, the idea of a slightly softened clutch dump or rapid high rev shift isn't a completely terrible idea.  If a delay valve is just an orifice to limit fluid flow, can it be drilled out to 2, 3, 4 times its current area so it both reduces drivetrain shock loading AND doesn't slip the clutch too much like the stock valve does?  Just my .02.  

I also had a hardrace rear motor mount.  It its probably the most compliant aftermarket RMM for 10G civics and adds minor NVH.  It improved shifting since the powertrain isn't flopping around as much.

I have a type R shifter and Acquity bits on order.  I'm going to have to look into the RMM too.  I'm curious how good this car can shift.  

Follow-up time: The new clutch is in and we removed the clutch delay in the slave cylinder. I like the 1-2 shift better and hope this clutch will last longer without the delay. If I push it hard, there is a noticeably harsher shock to the driveline while shifting, but it's still not that bad. 

Here are the leftovers.

The disc still had a fair amount of material but was glazed pretty badly.  Hard to say if it's because not enough clamping force for the torque, slightly more slipping at every shift due to the delay, a combination of both, or something else. But it hasn't happened like this on other cars I've owned.

I had to research the delay valve delete.  Let me know how this drives.  That mod may be worth it for me if my stock clutch will potentially last longer,  I'm at 14k or so right now.

It drives about the same until I really drive it hard and get through a shift really fast. I'll get a little driveline clunk where I didn't before.  But, before, I felt like every time I did the 1-2 shift in normal driving, the clutch was releasing too slowly and slipping.

It doesn't feel that way anymore and I don't feel a slip nor any driveline clunk with normal driving. I like it better this way.  I don't know if it will lengthen clutch life, but I can't believe it will hurt it.

I didn't know there was a delay valve until after the clutch started slipping enough to be replaced. If I had known, I probably would have deleted it.

Does the new integra have the same clutch? I was casually looking at those. 

In reply to Carl Heideman :

Thanks.  I feel that delay sometimes too. I see increased revs before the clutch grabs on fast shifts and it is annoying and can't help clutch life.  I also have a Type R shifter and some Acquity bits to add too.  When I get that done this fall, I will post photos and let you know how it feels.  I may also do a Type R rear motor mount and rear sway bar.  

In reply to grover :

Yes