$1100 A/C Line!!!?

Datsun1500 wrote:

DrBoost wrote: When a job comes in and it pays 5 hours customer pay, or 2.3 hours warranty who's taking it up the behive now?

The customer that has to pay 5 hours. Why should the hours (book or otherwise) change depending on who is writing the check?

You totally missed the point. The book time is 5 hours. That's the time the job takes on average to complete. If I've gotten good at a job and can beat that time it's because I "paid my dues" and become a professional in my field. The 2.3 hours is what the manufacturer says they will pay, regardless of the time it takes to do the job, regardless of the fact that it is the time that they came up with. So to answer my own question, the tech is taking it in the behive.
for those that have no understanding of what it takes to be a professional technician, I suggest you actually READ the posts by those of us that have walked a mile in those shoes. See, we are the guys that went to school for a few years to get the base knowledge. Then cut our teeth, or knuckles learning the real ins-and-outs of being a tech. We are the ones that cut a check every week to 2 or 3 tool dealers to keep up our tool set so we can fix these cars that change so rapidly. We are the ones that keep going to school (often at some cost to us) to keep abreast of the ever-changing automotive technology.
Am I complaining? No. But when we, after years of hard work (making very little money in the beginning) start to get good at our job and actually make enough money to buy a car we don't HAVE TO fix every weekend just to make it to work Monday to fix your car get lambasted by people like some here we get a little ticked-off.
Now, I'll say this a third time for the folks that have a hard time with reading comprehension. We do not write the estimate nor do we even see the final bill. Here's a day in the life:
We are given a work order. It may say "Crank, no start - 1.0" We are getting paid 1 hour to figure out why it won't start.
After the 50 minute mark we go to the writer and say "look man, this thing has an aftermarket alarm system that was installed by a window-licker, I'm going to need more time." He says, "yeah, figure it out. I'll get you paid." At this point we know what it feels like to drop the soap in prison; it may turn out ok, but we are pretty sure when it's all said and done we'll be walking like a duck and crying softly.
We spend the next 30 minutes figuring it out.
We go to library to look in the "book" to get the book time. The book time to replace the turbo-encapulator is 2.0 hours.
We get the part number and price. This takes 10 minutes or so. We have 90 minutes into a job that we are being paid 1.0 hours for.
We push the car outside and start on the next job. Add 5 minutes to the tally, 95 minutes.
The writer sees the 2 hours for replacing the encapulator, adds the 1.0 hour for diagnostics, let's call it $300. The Encapulator is $300, we're at $600. The writer adds $50 for shop supplies, $50 for misc stuff (can't remember the crap they'd come up with) and adds $100 on top of it all, so the customer can talk him down $100 and he'll still get what he wants.
So, for the 3 hours labor, plus the part you are being asked for $800. The job get's sold for $750. The writer tells me to do it. I push it back in, another 5 minutes, rack it up, 5 minutes, get the part, 5 minutes now we are at 110 minutes. Add the 120 minutes for the actual repair and we are at 230 minutes. Take the car outside, hang the keys up and do the paperwork, add 10 minutes to that, 240 minutes for 180 actual minutes charged to you. If I can do that job in 1/2 the time I've barely done better than breaking even.
I get paid maybe $55 for the job (here in MI techs aren't being paid crap, regardless of certifications or experience).
Now change that up a little bit. I get it done in 1 hour. I'm thinking "sweet, I beat the book time by 1/2! man, I'm glad I picked up that $85 tool last time I did this job, I just made an extra $9".

And to repeat what has been said, but some folks can't grasp; the tech didn't come up with flat-rate and doesn't like it either. I'd rather just get paid by the hour. Keep my busy, keep my hoist full and we're all happy.

In reply to tuna55:

When they came back at $350 I told them to fix it. The parts were 180 to me. Figure 4 cans of 134 @ $15 a can plus oil is another $80 or so. That $260 in parts and it would cost me more than $90 to climb under it in lost time. While they had it they also swapped the coil pack. It still doesn't run right and the SE light came on within 50 miles of picking it up. I haven't pulled the codes on it yet but I'm sure they are the same as when it went in. Lean bank 1, lean bank 2, misfire #6. The A/C vents still stop blowing under load. I told the guy when it went in I thought it had a vacuum leak. They said it was a coil. They were wrong.

I will say this though. The A/C works great. The rest of it I can live with until I have time to fix it myself.

Well here are the codes.

Low flow EGR

Lack of HO2s11 switch. Indicates lean. This one is new.

Lean bank 1

Misfire #6

Misfire first 1000 revolutions.

The rest of them are repeats. The only one that isn't there is Lean Bank 2

Toyman01 wrote: Well here are the codes. Low flow EGR Lack of HO2s11 switch. Indicates lean. This one is new. Lean bank 1 Misfire #6 Misfire first 1000 revolutions. The rest of them are repeats. The only one that isn't there is Lean Bank 2

At least you have a cylinder number. Try starting there, one cylinder misfire could be the cause of all of it if it's misfiring lean. Injector? Sticking exhaust valve?

Toyman01 wrote: Well here are the codes. Low flow EGR Lack of HO2s11 switch. Indicates lean. This one is new. Lean bank 1 Misfire #6 Misfire first 1000 revolutions. The rest of them are repeats. The only one that isn't there is Lean Bank 2

Is it always #6, or does that vary?

KATYB wrote: ummm radio replacement does not include diagnostics.

Horse hockey.

Every- and I mean EVERY- brand I have ever worked with (starting with Ford in 1985 and including GM, Chrysler, Toyota, Mazda, Isuzu, VW, KIA and Subaru) states that diagnostics are included in the warranty flate rate repair time unless specifically shown as a separate (but related) labor operation. That's because some repairs (generally misfire codes etc) will have a replace time for a part (such as an ignition coil) and an allowable max diagnostic time.

The only time diagnostic can be charged over and above the published time is if there are weird circumstances (pinched wires, etc) and that time has to be backed up with time clock punches. The tech is expected to document whatever needed to be R&R'ed during that diagnostic time. If the flat rate manual's times for R&R of those parts (nterior trim panels etc) was not reasonably close it was open for backflagging. In the case of a wiring repair, the piece of wire or connector etc that caused the problem had to be removed and then kept with the RO hard copy for review. BTDT more times than I care to remember.

Toyman01 wrote: Well here are the codes. Low flow EGR Lack of HO2s11 switch. Indicates lean. This one is new. Lean bank 1 Misfire #6 Misfire first 1000 revolutions. The rest of them are repeats. The only one that isn't there is Lean Bank 2

Unmetered air leak (leak in intake tract between engine and mass air flow sensor) is #1 on my list. See if #6 has a big vacuum hose nearby (evaporative emission system, etc) that might have come off. That would also explain the A/C vent operation problem. Come to think of it, a big enough vacuum leak in the A/C control head could do something similar.

EGR low flow is normally the tube clogged with carbon.

In reply to keethrax:

Always #6. Plugs and wires were done in the last 25K and they put a coil in it this time and it's still #6. I'm suspecting either a intake gasket leak or #6 is down on compression for some reason. I guess it could be an injector problem also.

i know when i was at toyota we didnt do a single thing without getting paid for diag. if we even were going on a testdrive with a customer we got paid for it. whether or not they billed toyota or the customer for it i dont know. but for me to even get in a car they paid me.

toyman was year and make and engine is the van?

In reply to KATYB:

2002 Ford E150 4.2 V6 with 267k miles

Toyman01 wrote: In reply to KATYB: 2002 Ford E150 4.2 V6 with 267k miles

If I didn't see any obvious vacuum leaks I would probably swap injectors between cylinders to see if it followed the injector.

intake manifold gasket. doubt it a clogged injector. but possible. also make sure the egr is not stuck open. .