12 Focus 2.0 vs. Miata 2.0

MS is probably equivalent to a stock ecu from what, 20-25 years ago? The sophistication of current OE Powertrain is way ahead of the aftermarket. 

Keith Tanner said:

MS is probably equivalent to a stock ecu from what, 20-25 years ago? The sophistication of current OE Powertrain is way ahead of the aftermarket. 

Give or take.  MS can do at least one cam, right?  Can it do both?

To me, the next step would be to add electronic throttle control, as it's been around for a while.  Just need to add the safety component to it.  But there are a lot of 2000-2012 engines that are ETC but just PFI.  

And if they really want to allow people to go for fuel economy, they should add EGR control.  

DI is another ball of wax over those.

Well poop.

So what you are saying is that the Focus is literally useless to me.

So, if you had a Miata suspended blank box that you could put any powertrain in what would you choose?

Variables: 

Cheap to buy

Easily sourced

Easy to maintain

Economical

Approximately 200hp

This will be a cruiser and car show car with work duties on the three nice days we get per year in Michigan.

Mind you I can have a 1.8 BP Miata engine and transmission if I want it and the MS as well was set up for a 1.8. A supercharger would get the BP right where I would like it to be but I would need to source one.

alfadriver said:

Keith Tanner said:

MS is probably equivalent to a stock ecu from what, 20-25 years ago? The sophistication of current OE Powertrain is way ahead of the aftermarket. 

Give or take.  MS can do at least one cam, right?  Can it do both?

Variable cam timing is supported on the MS3Pro Evo and Ultimate, but only for specific applications.  Ford Duratec happens to be one of those applications, so I assume that it is controlling intake and exhaust. (The docs say that it will be able to control four camshafts, and I think the Coyote is on the list of supported engines)  I have not played with one of these yet, so I don't really know how they reconcile VE variability with cam timing changes, or if you just run with a MAF sensor and go off of calculated load.  It's on my list of things to find out first-hand though.

To me, the next step would be to add electronic throttle control, as it's been around for a while.  Just need to add the safety component to it.  But there are a lot of 2000-2012 engines that are ETC but just PFI.  

And if they really want to allow people to go for fuel economy, they should add EGR control.  

DI is another ball of wax over those.

I don't think they will ever do electronic throttle, for liability reasons.  But, I am fairly sure that you can do fairly rudimentary EGR control, albeit of the vacuum solenoid controlled valve and not electronic.  There's a fair bit of flexibility in auxiliary outputs and how you can control them, but in the case of something like EGR, you'd probably only want to engage it when in closed loop.

I should point out at this point that we're also dealing with ECUs that are Not Inexpensive.  An Evo or Ultimate box with flying-lead harness is quite close to what the Ford Motorsport controls pack for the 2.0 or 2.3 Ecoboost retails for.  HP Tuners will tune one of these, you could probably set up the tune to run a naturally aspirated engine if you wanted, and you get to keep the DI and electronic throttle. 

JmfnB said:

So, if you had a Miata suspended blank box that you could put any powertrain in what would you choose?

Variables: 

Cheap to buy

Easily sourced

Easy to maintain

Economical

Approximately 200hp

This will be a cruiser and car show car with work duties on the three nice days we get per year in Michigan.

Mind you I can have a 1.8 BP Miata engine and transmission if I want it and the MS as well was set up for a 1.8. A supercharger would get the BP right where I would like it to be but I would need to source one.

 

BP engine with ITBs and cams.  But then I am biased toward the sound and feel of a hot naturally aspirated engine with that independent-throttle bark and response, over anything forced induction, so YMMV.

As a bonus, it already bolts in!  Or probably does, anyway...

That fails on every attribute, unfortunately. They’re a lot of fun - I’ve had a couple - but they don’t meet the requirements. A turbo BP would be a lot closer. The 2.5 MZR on an NC trans would be the naturally aspirated option. 

I may start noodling around with the idea of a 2.5. Worst case is that I part down the Focus and invest even more into the Panhard. Since I am pretty certain that this car will not be done for $2019 I think it's time to really create what I want. 

Sorry to hear of the demise of the Focus.  

It's no sports car but if you are in immediate need of reliable transport I have an '04 Malibu w/ 117k that I could GRM-deal for $1800.  Needs nothing now that the ball joint has been replaced.  

Full details in this thread. 

I vote the 2.5. If my 2.0 ever dies, that'll be going in it's place.

If you go with the 2.5/NC trans option, I have a 06 NC with 5spd manual that was hit in the rear that I'm parting out, if you need any parts. 

tux424 said:

I vote the 2.5. If my 2.0 ever dies, that'll be going in it's place.

If you go with the 2.5/NC trans option, I have a 06 NC with 5spd manual that was hit in the rear that I'm parting out, if you need any parts. 

Interesting. 

If you would like send a text to 269-2zero3-6403 with specifics and prices I may be very interested. 

I kind of asked this question on the NC thread, but I will ask it a different way to see if I get an answer.

The Duratec 2.0 Focus engine has 12:1cr to help exploit the efficiency of the direct injection systems better authorization. It gets its 160hp from a unique head and higher compression ratio pistons among other things (variable valve timing etc).

I will assume that the Duratec 2.0 head is not the best flowing DI head or the best cams of the MZR/Duratec variants. 

Is there a better combination of parts from the OE parts bins that would create a stout 200hp engine? 

Would a high compression Focus short block, Miata cammed 2.5 head with a proper tune running E85 be a viable prospect?

Wheels are rolling.

In reply to JmfnB :

Esslinger found that the DI 2.0 was the best flowing production head, period, when they were testing to see which head made the most power for a stock as-cast head class.  As alfadriver pointed out, you will have nowhere to run port injectors, though.  That means you have to run an ITB manifold with injectors in the throttle bodies, how awful 

340hp on methanol with a stock head, block, and 2.3 crank.