STM317 wrote: In reply to Flight Service: What do you suppose the McLaren dealer's labor rate is to swap it?
$300 per hour the last time I checked...
STM317 wrote: In reply to Flight Service: What do you suppose the McLaren dealer's labor rate is to swap it?
$300 per hour the last time I checked...
If you plan on actually using it as a car, get the 911. If its a toy, coming out only to go to a show, then the Mclaren will be far more fun and special.
docwyte wrote: If you plan on actually using it as a car, get the 911. If its a toy, coming out only to go to a show, then the Mclaren will be far more fun and special.
What makes you say that?
My answer to this is....Ferrari 360 CS
My answer is C.) take the cash option or buy a Caterham 7.
You can carry stuff in the 911. You can carry people in the 911. You can easily drive the car out to dinner without becoming a rolling attraction in the 911. You can see out of 911 easily. You can get in and out of the 911 easily.
It's just a much more usable car. It's not a hyper-super car design, although it has very similar performance.
Seems like being able to afford a McLaren means you can really afford 5 of them to shrug off the potential maintenance costs and plummeting depreciation. Plus, this is a really big cliche, but the McLaren's styling seems kind of generic. That feels utterly ridiculous to say, like proclaiming that Penelope Cruz isn't my type, like anyone in the world cares.
After my experiences with vag products, I'd be pretty stunned if the macca was less reliable.
Flight Service wrote:wearymicrobe wrote: Test drove both before buying something else. Mp4 if you live near a dealership and can afford the warranty and have another car. The 911 Turbo if you want to use it every single day. Personally if I was in the position again and had to choose between just those manufacturer I would still save money and get a 650s or a 570sThat is odd that you say that weary. What are the issues with it? I have read on The Interwebs that the first year had issues but McLaren gave free updates to fix all of them. Every review says it is the most DD supercar next to the 911. As far as the new generation that is just a body kit on the 12c (clip swaps just like common chassis Porsches). Is it the stylish g throwing you off there? Maintenance seems to float between $1200 to $2400 between major and minors. I have seen the same thing st Lexus dealerships. The more I research the car the more I realize it is 90's race tech. WRC banned dampners, F1 banned brake assist steering. Android tablet based infotainment.... So why you say what you say?
The 12C is fantastic when it is running, I have several friends who have had 20-30K non warranty issues. Suspension issues, software issues. Dealer service is few and far between if you live outside of a few select area's. Not saying they are Aston's in reliability but they are close. Now having said all that, man are they fantastic the 650s is worlds better though.
The 911S is fantastic and insanely fast but holy tar is it boring at sane speeds. Under 120 its the most boring car I have ever been in. Its like a vacuum cleaner that just sucks up and spits out speed. Now that is fine for some people. The PDK is perfect in traffic, it just is so much better built then anything else in the price point used or new.
Now I have been in the 570s and that is a car. Have not been able to drive it yet.
For me in this price point working down when I was price independent but in this area with fun and price together. The 650s/570s is what I want but I simply cannot afford one and use it the way I want.
675LT(No real extensive experience yet)
650s
Gen V ACR Viper
570s
F430 Spyder
Viper ACR
R8 V10
MP4-12C
Bentley GTC Speed
360 Spider
Alfa 4C (Toy)
911 Turbo
R8 V8
Corvette GS
That was the list as I worked down it.
The 12C is great on paper, but cars are driven on asphalt. In the real world, with real crests and dips and off-camber bumps, not to mention weather, I have a sneaking suspicion that the 911 Turbo S will be faster literally everywhere. And if you think it's a bit quiet and dull, just get an iPE exhaust fitted.
https://www.youtube.com/embed/v58IV5ZDLO0
Now that's what I call a soundtrack.
In reply to wearymicrobe:
I believed you right up until you put the R8 V10 above the 12C.
You are dead to me now. 
So you have friends with 20k-30k with no issues yet you said suspension and software issues. Please clarify. I know the 2012 had some problems which Mclaren had to roll out continuous improvements to get fix and by 2014 everything was squared away on the software side. Most of this seemed to be related to the IRIS system, which they wholely replaced and the engine software update. Suspension issues is something I have heard of twice (once here and once on the mclaren boards.) I have seen where the 12c's ECU is very sensor sensitive, but unlike most cars on the market it is a simple restart to clear it. The frunk on these things is larger than the 911s but it doesn't have the back "seats". Yes the doors are obnoxious, I'm obnoxious, it fits.
I like most am terrified of the VAG reliability. How they handled the IMS issue, scares the crap out of me. Not that the IMS happened but Porsche's response. Mclaren seems to be more like "our bad let's fix it and get you back on the road" and VAG is like, "Dumkopf!!! You must be WRONG!!! Porsche is perfection!!! Be gone swine!" I love some P-cars, but reoccuring costs seem comparable, the Mclaren service seems much better from a factory support POV. (I have a Mclaren/Aston Martin/Bentley dealer closer to me than a Wal-Mart so that is moot.) Yes the 12c had a $14k trans but is that any worse than a $20k engine (even a base engine is still in the $8k range)? No one says anything about the 12c engine so it must be a rock.
This is the first car in a long time I have seen where I prefer the convertible. That is so capable that it will take a driver better than I will ever be to ever be able to exploit the car enough to see the difference in the coupe and the spider. Yes it is a bit of pomp and show but isn't that point of the 911 Turbo S? If you want low key just get a Carrera. (you will have trouble convincing me otherwise when Yellow calipers are the standard for a trim level.)
Just some thoughts.
In reply to Flight Service:
He is saying 20k-30k dollar amount in issues (probably in single visits) outside of warranty.
Cotton wrote: In reply to Flight Service: He is saying 20k-30k dollar amount in issues (probably in single visits) outside of warranty.
ohhhhh, that makes more sense...
In reply to Flight Service:
Dude your mind is made up, so you just need to buy it. You can't go wrong with either and I for one would love to get a GRMers perspective on Mclaren ownership! I actually looked at the early 12c briefly before going with the gated 360 and I will for sure revisit them and some point, but I had my heart set on an f-car with a gated manual. And btw I love the doors on the Mac.
IF you are seriously thinking of getting the 12c I would say do it, they are about as cheap as they are going to get. But go in understanding that you have like a 10% chance a year to have a service bill that would make a 355 repair look tame.
All joking aside, if you do have the cash I would seriously take a look at the 570s there are a few used ones out there in the 150K range I believe and it is a much more interesting car. Your going to be paying a solid 120K for a properly optioned 12c. Plus the 570s can be flashed with the 650s software and then it is just flat out coo coo banana's and it has the warranty. I have seen stock 570s run in the 10's on a prepped surface in the quarter.
In reply to wearymicrobe:
I don't know how to shop for these cars. I can barely find a 12c in the $150k range much less a 570s. Plus, I would love a spider, but it ain't a $50k justifiable option for me either!
Flight Service wrote: In reply to wearymicrobe: I don't know how to shop for these cars. I can barely find a 12c in the $150k range much less a 570s. Plus, I would love a spider, but it ain't a $50k justifiable option for me either!
Have you driven a McLaren yet?
Looks like a spider is close to your budget.. this one is in Sterling so not far from you.
In reply to Devilsolsi:
The knocked $8k off that car in the last few days.
Flight Service wrote: In reply to wearymicrobe: I don't know how to shop for these cars. I can barely find a 12c in the $150k range much less a 570s. Plus, I would love a spider, but it ain't a $50k justifiable option for me either!
I looked at three sub 110K and one under 104K about what 6 months ago. These things are not selling in the 150K and don;t let anyone tell you otherwise. Let me dig through my lists. I just turned down a lava orange at 110K for a client with like 30K in carbon in with 15K miles.
If you are out in California and are serious I can more then likely get one for you to drive. I can gap a friend with a Ford GT and my ACr and maybe a F430 and we can go up into the hills and you can try them all.
In reply to wearymicrobe:
The absolute soonest would be probably March of next year. I am coming into the hectic time of the year for me. 4 birthdays and all the Holidays and the end of the fiscal year at work.
In reply to wearymicrobe:
Weary is the bright blue color considered a hot color on a Mclaren or does is command less of a premium? If I were to get one I'd really like it in the bright blue.
This is the color:
http://www.autoevolution.com/reviews/2013-mclaren-mp4-12c-spider-test-drive.html
Orange white and black are the big ones. MSO brings extra as well.
Went and looked at the one in Sterling last night. It had a blue 650S sitting right beside it and boy what a difference.
I have to say, stylistically, I like the 12C better!
The new cars are very teenage boy poster-ish (I see why Weary likes the 650/675/575 better, given his choice of subtle Dodges.) Which is great. They are supercars and that is what supercars are. The 12c in contrast looks like they made a serious attempt to build a car that is capable of super performance with DD sensibility. There was a 911 Turbo there as well and it looked just boring. To be fair to the 911, it was sitting next to a 675LT and a Murcieallargo. There was also a grey 458 as well. After seeing everything up close and personal I have to say I look at the 12c Spider as an unlimited budget built Gen 2 MR2 with a PRHT. As a two seat mid-engine car does the 12c have drawbacks? Absolutely. It is a compromise between the sensibility and usability of the 911 and seduction of the 458, that decided to give up nothing in the performance department to either.
Maybe that is the best place to put the 12c, right between the 458 and 911. All three are mind boggling fast, all three have their pros and cons and all three answer the same questions differently. It isn't that any of the answers are wrong or better, but what best fits the personality of the owner.
What a wonderful time to be an auto enthusiast.
570 Spider is scheduled for release mid next year.
Holding off on the 12c spider would be prudent.
Weary, might give you a yell in about 10 months
You'll need to log in to post.
