'14 Kia Forte Koup

kanaric wrote:

David S. Wallens wrote: 1.6 liters, 201 horsepower. Stock. Whoever thought we'd see that in a production car?

Turbo though... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honda_B_engine#B16B_.28Type_R.29 More impressive IMO.

yeah... because 181hp at 8200rpms and 118ftlbs of torque is at 7500rpm "impressive". I love a 700rpm powerband like that.

bravenrace wrote:

Bobzilla wrote:

GameboyRMH wrote: BTW notice how while smoothing down all the nice angles the car used to have and swapping that angular sporty grille for a blobby fish-mouth, they gave it a quite serious-looking rear diffuser. It's like they moved all the sportiness to the back underside of the car.

Because all you're going to see is the taillights.... DUUUUHHHHH!

You really do drink the cool aid, don't you?

It's Kool Aid Duhhhhh!

bravenrace wrote:

Bobzilla wrote:

GameboyRMH wrote: BTW notice how while smoothing down all the nice angles the car used to have and swapping that angular sporty grille for a blobby fish-mouth, they gave it a quite serious-looking rear diffuser. It's like they moved all the sportiness to the back underside of the car.

Because all you're going to see is the taillights.... DUUUUHHHHH!

You really do drink the cool aid, don't you?

LOL! I think I read one too many threads on the Forteforums.... mah bad.

93EXCivic wrote:

bravenrace wrote:

Bobzilla wrote:

GameboyRMH wrote: BTW notice how while smoothing down all the nice angles the car used to have and swapping that angular sporty grille for a blobby fish-mouth, they gave it a quite serious-looking rear diffuser. It's like they moved all the sportiness to the back underside of the car.

Because all you're going to see is the taillights.... DUUUUHHHHH!

You really do drink the cool aid, don't you?

It's Kool Aid Duhhhhh!

Unless you drink the "cool" kind.

Bobzilla wrote:

kanaric wrote:

David S. Wallens wrote: 1.6 liters, 201 horsepower. Stock. Whoever thought we'd see that in a production car?

Turbo though... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honda_B_engine#B16B_.28Type_R.29 More impressive IMO.

yeah... because 181hp at 8200rpms and 118ftlbs of torque is at 7500rpm "impressive". I love a 700rpm powerband like that.

In a stock car sold at a dealership? Hell yeah it's impressive. Just as impressive as the Integra Type R and the S2000. We rarely get such cars in the US, if ever.

If you think that is unimpressive for a company to sell a car like that then I am fairly surprised quiet honestly. A 1.6L car with 181hp na power and a 9000rpm redline as a stock engine doesn't impress you then..... idk what would. Nothing i guess.

I am not impressed with an engine that ONLY makes power way up top and has such a narrow power band. Hell, my G13B spun to over 9k and made a whole 110hp at the crank, but it backed it up with 100ftlbs of torque there too. Give me something with 180hp/170tq with a 7500rpm redline and that is a good motor. Something I can drive everyday without the need to wind the piss out of it all the time.

If I want a motorcycle engine, I'll buy a bike.

Bobzilla wrote: I am not impressed with an engine that ONLY makes power way up top and has such a narrow power band. Hell, my G13B spun to over 9k and made a whole 110hp at the crank, but it backed it up with 100ftlbs of torque there too. Give me something with 180hp/170tq with a 7500rpm redline and that is a good motor. Something I can drive everyday without the need to wind the piss out of it all the time. If I want a motorcycle engine, I'll buy a bike.

I believe you're forgetting the part where the B18 mentioned makes more power than your G13B did... everywhere.

You wouldn't have to rev the piss out of the B18 to stomp a hole in the G13.

Just sayin'. You don't NEED max power everytime you drive to the grocery store.

actually he was mentioning a B16....since we're talking about 1.6L engines making 200+ hp and torque to go with it.

Of course, he's also talking about an engine we never saw, was never equipped with US emissions etc. Might as well compare it to the G13B's in the rally cars that made 160hp at 9800rpm from 1.3L . Those were never here, made legal for street consumption either.

Bobzilla wrote: actually he was mentioning a B16....since we're talking about 1.6L engines making 200+ hp and torque to go with it

Oh lol my bad.

But still... overlay that B16 dyno with the G13. I bet it's surprising.

Anyways it doesn't matter. We're talking turbo vs. n/a. Dumb.

bravenrace wrote: Unless you drink the "cool" kind.

Nah, he definitely didn't drink the cool kind........he went off the deep end and drank the bong water

But still... overlay that B16 dyno with the G13. I bet it's surprising.

Well, I can't lay them over each other.... but here's a pair of them I googled:

B16B

G13B

Now, the biggest difference is the lack of vtec giving the B a bump in torque at 6k rpms. In fact, it shows just how torqueless this wonder is below 6k. It makes no more, no less from 3k to 6k, then it gets a bump, to start dropping off again at 7k. It's a very unnatural curve.

The G motor uses cams made in the 80's to rev, so you see them come up on the power band at 3800. and holds it's torque through 7k before slowly dropping off. It's a natural progression of building torque in the lower rpms, then slowly drops that torque as the HP climbs.

The charts show me, personally, that the G is in it's power band at a much lower rpm range, meaning that drive to the grocery store won't need 400 shifts to get out into traffic, pass a slower car etc.

YMMV.

The other thing to consider was the vehicle these were in. The G13 was saddled with, what, 1800 lbs? The Civic pirate car was closer to 2400lbs.

yamaha wrote:

bravenrace wrote: Unless you drink the "cool" kind.

Nah, he definitely didn't drink the cool kind........he went off the deep end and drank the bong water

But I never inhaled.

Bobzilla wrote:

But still... overlay that B16 dyno with the G13. I bet it's surprising.

Well, I can't lay them over each other.... but here's a pair of them I googled: B16B G13B Now, the biggest difference is the lack of vtec giving the B a bump in torque at 6k rpms. In fact, it shows just how torqueless this wonder is below 6k. It makes no more, no less from 3k to 6k, then it gets a bump, to start dropping off again at 7k. It's a very unnatural curve. The G motor uses cams made in the 80's to rev, so you see them come up on the power band at 3800. and holds it's torque through 7k before slowly dropping off. It's a natural progression of building torque in the lower rpms, then slowly drops that torque as the HP climbs. The charts show me, personally, that the G is in it's power band at a much lower rpm range, meaning that drive to the grocery store won't need 400 shifts to get out into traffic, pass a slower car etc. YMMV. The other thing to consider was the vehicle these were in. The G13 was saddled with, what, 1800 lbs? The Civic pirate car was closer to 2400lbs.

I can't see the G13 dyno right now.

Sooo... my question is: Which motor makes more power at 2000rpms? 3000rpms? 4000rpms? 5000rpms? Etc...

We're talking about motors, not cars.

If we're talking about cars, then the Pirate Civic has the power/weight edge over the new Forte, and that doesn't really dwell well with your agenda, does it?

(Please note that i'm just teasing/yanking your chain at this point. I think both the G13 and the B16 suck. )

I just like the annoyance factor of the G13B.

Swank Force One wrote: Sooo... my question is: Which motor makes more power at 3000rpms? 4000rpms? 5000rpms? Etc...

B16 - ~67hp@3k, 90@4k, 110@5k, 140@6k, 170@7k, 177@8k, 170@8.5k

G13b - ~45hp@3k, 67@4k, 85@5k, 105@6k, 120@6k, and 122 @6400 before it queefed itself to death.

Bobzilla wrote:

yamaha wrote:

bravenrace wrote: Unless you drink the "cool" kind.

Nah, he definitely didn't drink the cool kind........he went off the deep end and drank the bong water

But I never inhaled.

That's too bad. Because that would have given you an excuse.

yamaha wrote:

Swank Force One wrote: Sooo... my question is: Which motor makes more power at 3000rpms? 4000rpms? 5000rpms? Etc...

B16 - ~67hp@3k, 90@4k, 110@5k, 140@6k, 170@7k, 177@8k, 170@8.5k G13b - ~45hp@3k, 67@4k, 85@5k, 105@6k, 120@6k, and 122 @6400 before it queefed itself to death.

Clearly the G13 is better because you don't have to rev the nuts off of it.

Is it because you don't bother because you know it's slow no matter how high you rev it?

yamaha wrote:

Swank Force One wrote: Sooo... my question is: Which motor makes more power at 3000rpms? 4000rpms? 5000rpms? Etc...

B16 - ~67hp@3k, 90@4k, 110@5k, 140@6k, 170@7k, 177@8k, 170@8.5k G13b - ~45hp@3k, 67@4k, 85@5k, 105@6k, 120@6k, and 122 @6400 before it queefed itself to death.

You need some glasses son, the redline on that car was the US spec 7500rpm. The graph was still climbing at the fuel cut. So it should read:

G13b - ~45hp@3k, 67@4k, 85@5k, 105@6k, 120@7k, and 122 @7500 before it queefed itself to death.

Since Suzuki thought we're all inbred morons, they gave us 1000rpms less than the Japanese spec cars. Actual peak power in them occurs around the 8200rpm mark. A simple PROM swap fixes that. Find some Suzuki Sport valve springs and some Cultus cams and you're good for 9500 rpms.... but then you start to look like a Honda because the bottom end is dead.

The bottom end is dead anyways.... It's getting out-muscled at every RPM by the Honda motor you're making fun of.

Sense, you're making none.

Ahh, in my lack of giving a berkeley, I evidently copied 6k twice......I don't care, as its E36 M3ty either way. A sho dynograph is much more enjoyable to look at than those two.

Swank Force One wrote: The bottom end is dead anyways.... It's getting out-muscled at every RPM by the Honda motor you're making fun of. Sense, you're making none.

Like I said previously, you have to look at the platform they were installed in. The Hondar is saddled with at least 500lbs more weight. It's also got more cubes. It SHOULD be making more power than the G13B. If it's not, that's sad.

I'll tell you a sad Dyno graph to look at.... Tiburon 2.7L Delta. I'm'a go find one now.

Here we go:

Redline is 6250. That car has intake, exhaust and headers and is barely pushing 160hp.

I see yet another motor that makes more power everywhere than a G13.

Soooo.... What's the point?

I'd hope it does, it has 2 more cylinders and over twice the displacement.

The torque curve on the Delta is an odd one. There are better graphs out there that show it "peaks" at ~3500, the dips, a little, and repeaks at 5200 the falls of the face of the earth. That and they had the redline set about 600rpms too high for that engine as it's done long before fuel cut.

Could you analyze this 2.2 litre 4 cylinder dyno for me, please?