Has anyone bought or heard anything about them?
Has anyone bought or heard anything about them?
I thought this was in reference to the stoiciometric ratio.
I bought a wideband controller kit from them several years ago, thinking I'd pair it with the Megasquirt. Then I came across a great deal on an LC-1. It was a decent kit, went together smooth. I had some misgivings that the design seemed hackish (esp the need for the big heatsinked stuff), but that's just unfounded bellyaching.
I still have the assembled board around here somewhere collecting dust. Or do I?
Edit - wow, the company has really improved its lineup since then. The stuff I have isn't even offered anymore. (It was a JAW)
I have 3 of there toys. They have grate support before and after your preaches. 
ya they started with the JAW... a very low end/entry level roll your own wideband (think MS type stuff but not quite as well designed at a real nice price as I recall)
these days they've come a LONG way... but the price has jumped a lot also.
I'm still debating on what WB to go with on the s10... the 14point7 is an obvious option
I can't really say as I have owned two of their kits and never did anything with them. I have a NAW that was going to be used with a megasquirt.
The LC1 is a fine item, but the 14point7 stuff is real cheap!
I am failing to see the cheap. What am I not looking at?
The SLC DIY-2 is $140 without a sensor and you have to build it yourself. Sensors are no longer $40 like they were last year they are now over $70.
The Innovate LC-1 is $188 with a sensor. Has a standard gauge for the dash and Megasquirt is preconfigured to use it.
Not seeing the benefit unless its software is some super awesome thing. But even then I have never even loaded the software for the LC-1. The sensor talks to MSII and Tunerstudio does the rest.
i'd say it's real cheap for what all it can do... if you only want something to read WB for your MS you can get cheaper from one of the name brands (new on ebay)... and same thing if you want a gauge...
depends on what you want.
the big thing is it can datalog
AFR
RPM
Boost/vac
EGT
fluid temps
intake air temps
fuel pressure
oil pressure
and it's already built... if you get the DIY "kit" the only thing you are building is wiring stuff... the full one has memory onboard as I recall but the DIY requires computer to datalog...
impressive for the price...
But what does it do that the cheaper LC-1 doesn't?
The LC-1 datalogs, has a standard display that will fit in most cars easily, has 2 programmable outputs and comes with software that does some....I dunno ... stuff. The only difference I see is that the SLC has internal memory to store datalogs without needing a laptop hooked up while driving but I can't think of a single way that would be useful.
Doh! you got me with that update. 
The SLC OEM looks promising. It does all I would ever want a wideband controller to do.
Since I have been using Megasquirt one and two (5 years and 4 motors) If I want to datalog I let MS take care of it and since I switched from megatune to tunerstudio I haven't needed to datalog at all. The only reason to do so is if I were unable to pinpoint a problem and needed to post them online for help and EVERYONE can read MS logs are the 14point7 similarly supported?
At $125 the SLC OEM is mighty tempting to try on my next build.
Hm. Yeah. Seems not to well priced anymore. The NAW was about $90 with sensor. All it did was hand off the signal to megasquirt, generate a narrowband output, and display basic readings on LEDs.
was the NAW bassicly just an update of the JAW?
i'm with you on the idea of using the MS... it does all the important things for most people... but if you're racing it seems ideal... solid state memory and pretty compact and logs a bunch of things that people would want to keep their eyes on for different type of track situations...
on a side note... the way you talk of tuner studio makes me even more excited to get the rig running :)
This stuff is very well priced. Comparing it to the LC-1 makes almost no sense.
The LC-1 is an unreliable dinosaur in comparison. I can't wait to get rid of mine, it drives me batty.
The NAW is the most barebones wideband controller I've ever seen.
It fits in a tictac box and does only four things
I just completed a SLC OEM and have it running with my MS on the bench. Very simple to build BUT READING THE INSTRUCTIONS is very important. It is a simple WB / NB idiot proof device. I would recommend it. Full disclosure is I did some testing of prototypes of the NAW and the JAW back 4 years back. I am now a cash customer. Alan has come a long way with his new stuff. Take a look in this thread I discuss building the SLC OEM as part of my MS 924s project
Scroll down about 1/3 of the page.
http://clarks-garage.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=8338&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=60&sid=e3b1e5d55956c7256849e3a2a662cc9a
I tryed to point out the good and the bad with it (there are photos showing what I thaught were potential pit falls in the assembly)
I got the EVK kit meaing the WB can stand alown and function off 12 volts from the car. Doing it again I would considder getting only the SLC OEM and intigrate it into the MS box.
Just remember it is a DIY kit not a P&P Kit.
dean thanks for posting... i'll def look more into it...
looks like a pretty simple board build... but quick question (and i'm sure the answer is in the documentation but I haven't gotten to it yet)... do you have to calibrate the sensor or does it auto calibrate?
Looked at the documentation last night and it seems to be a similar calibration schedule as the innovate. You have to pull it and to a free air every so often.
innovate said: Normally aspirated daily driver: - Calibrate before installation of new sensor - Calibrate new sensor again after 3 month of use - Thereafter calibrate once a year or every 20,000 miles, whichever comes first Turbo car, daily driver (tuned rich): - Calibrate before installation of new sensor - Calibrate new sensor again after 3 month of use - Thereafter calibrate twice a year or every 10,000 miles, whichever comes first Race car - Calibrate before first installation of new sensor - Calibrate once per race weekend Dyno use - Calibrate a new sensor - Calibrate every 2-3 days, depending on usage
14point7 said: Free Air Calibration Schedule: Normally Aspirated Engine: Calibrate once a year or every 40,000 miles, whichever comes first. Turbo/Super Charged Engine: Calibrate once every 6 months or every 20,000 miles, whichever comes first. Race Engine: Calibrate every other race weekend. Dynometer: Calibrate once a week
I think the SLC OEM is $65 if you already have a 5V source it is by far the cheapest way to go. BUT You will have to fab up the connections to the sensor. This was another reason why I got the EVK kit it comes with all the hardware for the cables, the cable, and the plug's for the WBO2 sensor as well. I don't know if Alan sells the cable and the sensor plug kit with the SLC OEM with out the EVK kit.
I wonder if any of these could be adapted to display output from the wideband in my Hydra....
92CelicaHalfTrac wrote: I wonder if any of these could be adapted to display output from the wideband in my Hydra....
You'd have an easier time getting the Hydra to run a PWM output to drive a gauge - and I'm saying this without knowing whether the current Hydra firmware even has this feature. Putting two normal controllers on a wideband sensor is more likely to have the two fight over control of the pump cell, send in current when the other one isn't aware of the current source, and generally cause total chaos. It's possible you could design a controller to read the behavior of a wideband under a different controller, but it would probably need to be a purpose-built thing that measures current with inductive pick-ups.
I hope this is not considered as spam, if so; sorry mods.
Open up the LC1 or any lambda controller:
Look for voltage protection; over voltage, fuse, reverse voltage protection, an automotive environment is notorious for having a very poor quality source of 12v power.
Look if they use electrolytic capacitors, they love to blow up/expand when exposed to heating and cooling like in a real car.
Look at the ICs and their model numbers, check the temperature ratings of those ICs with the datasheet. You would think that since the LC1 is meant to be operating in the engine bay rather than the cabin, that all components would be extended industrial (-55C to 125C) but their weakest component, the 5v regulator is rated for only 0 to 85C. Poor temperature rated components is not something that is restricted to the LC1, many lambda controllers use commercial grade components rather than industrial/extended industrial to save a buck. Many companies will also BS you about the operating temperature, look at the components and check their datasheets. All SLC products are rated for -40C to 85C based on the temperature rating of weakest component, and they are meant to operate in the cabin.
Lastly look at their warranty, you will find that their warranty is entirely consistent with what you see in terms of voltage protection and component quality. Some companies will offer 3 months as a joke, others will throw you a bone and offer 6 months, serious companies offer 1 year. SLC PP2 carries a 2 year warranty, nobody offers a longer warranty regardless of price.
If I was doing a product that carried a 6 month warranty rather than 2 years; I could cut production costs in half by skimping on voltage protection and component quality.
I understood almos nothing in this thread.
I am going back to sleep and I will reread it when I get back up. It is too early in the morning I guess.
FWIW, the LC-1 I bought ended up being dead. Apparently there was a common failure mode with a certain production run. I sent it in for a repair estimate (a couple years old, no receipt, I was at least the 3rd owner, cable all hacked to bits) and a brand new one showed up on my doorstep, no charge. So yes, while Alan was awesome to deal with, sometimes even the big names can do unexpected things.
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