I'm going to install new plugs in my Ford Bronco project. It has a 1970 or 1971 Ford 302 in it. I've seen recommended gap anywhere from .25 to .45. I think it is a standard ignition set up so it seems that I will want to gap them at OEM specs.
Any clue what that is?
If nobody answers by tomorrow, I have at least two reference books in the Batcave with the correct answer.
.030" can't hurt, shooting from the hip.
Does it have points or electronic ignition? Points should be .025 Electronic should be .045.
If it does not have electronic, a Duraspark II system will drop right in. Great modification.
Put it at 35 and call it good? If it misses under high load, close the gap down.
I can agree with all three of the above answers!
If you do have points, and want to upgrade to the duraspark (stock ford electronic) I have some simplified wiring drawings I could dig up for ya.
In reply to Mr_Asa :
Especially since Ford points igntion from the era was downright chunderheaded.
Instead of rotating the breaker plate on a bearing around the shaft like every other manufacturer ever, they pivoted it on a tiny plastic bushing, ostensibly so that dwell could change with load as the vacuum can moved. Neat idea, but in practice, the bushing lasted maybe 5000 miles and then it all went to hell.
I had a '72 Ford. I remember having to dick with the points gap every morning so the car would start so I could drive to work.
Mr_Asa said:If it does not have electronic, a Duraspark II system will drop right in. Great modification.
I'm up for improvements but have no idea what any of this means. Can you tell from a picture?
I have a new cap and rotor to install, along with new plugs and wires.
Well looks like .025.
You might want to replace the points and condenser, by which I mean get a friend over that has done them to help you. It's a super easy job that is very easy to mess up on your first rodeo.
Also convert it to electronic ignition asap. Seriously.
Also, does anyone else think those point loves look worn excessively?
Don't even replace the points. Just put a electronic conversion in it and be done with it. As mentioned above those points are complete garbage.
If you have to stick with them, keep a spare set in the glove box. You will need them.
Visual aid to assist in discussion! ( I was a newbe once as well... back when points were A LOT more common!)
As has been pointed out, this is a points system.
Duraspark I systems had a similar cap to this, but the Duraspark II systems had these big ole wide caps to help prevent arcing.
DSII on the left, DSI on the right
The visual aids are incredibly helpful! Thank you!! I had no idea what points are or what lobes might be.
So I want to switch to the Duraspark II system, right? Can you all provide me with a list of what I need from my FLAPS?
Pertronix makes a drop in electronic conversion kit to replace those points as well. Takes less time to install than a set of points does.
As mentioned, electronic ignitions are WAY better. But points are now where near as bad as folks are making out. Point gap and dwell are important, wear in moving parts hurts performance, and the spark is no where near as hot, requiring less plug gap. Can't squeeze every last MPG out with 'em, or every last tenth of a horsepower, but the points nor fords funky bushing will wear out in a few thousand miles.
Yours looks to be in decent shape. Not seeing it in person, I think the point lobes look ok; they are "soft to keep the points form bouncing.
Def plan to put electronic ignition on it one day for reliability, but for your current plans, no need to spend the extra money right now, unless you have lots in the budget.
Always replace points and condenser as a set. I have had more problems with new condensers being bad right out of the box, than any other points problem, so don't throw the old one away, for troubleshooting if it doesn't run right after change. Change out rotor button and cap (wires if needed) first, and run it to make sure its running as good or better than before change. Then go back and change out points and condenser. Don't change too much at once. Never assume new parts are good; and you want to know what part made it worse!
In reply to Toyman01 (Moderately Supportive Dude) :
Thanks, beat me to that. For a beginner, that Pertronics might be easier than wireing in a DSII box! I havent done one, but I hear good things. Don't know about cost difference, but I've done the DSII.
I'll be back with more info... gotta actually do me job for a bit!
03Panther said:As mentioned, electronic ignitions are WAY better. But points are now where near as bad as folks are making out. Point gap and dwell are important, wear in moving parts hurts performance, and the spark is no where near as hot, requiring less plug gap. Can't squeeze every last MPG out with 'em, or every last tenth of a horsepower, but the points nor fords funky bushing will wear out in a few thousand miles.
Yours looks to be in decent shape. Not seeing it in person, I think the point lobes look ok; they are "soft to keep the points form bouncing.
Def plan to put electronic ignition on it one day for reliability, but for your current plans, no need to spend the extra money right now, unless you have lots in the budget.
Always replace points and condenser as a set. I have had more problems with new condensers being bad right out of the box, than any other points problem, so don't throw the old one away, for troubleshooting if it doesn't run right after change. Change out rotor button and cap (wires if needed) first, and run it to make sure its running as good or better than before change. Then go back and change out points and condenser. Don't change too much at once. Never assume new parts are good; and you want to know what part made it worse!
I have a new cap and rotor button, new plugs and new wires ready to go. It was running before (though I haven't driven it further than the length of my driveway) so I'll switch out these parts and then take a breath. Thanks for all of the advice!
Toyman01 (Moderately Supportive Dude) said:Pertronix makes a drop in electronic conversion kit to replace those points as well. Takes less time to install than a set of points does.
I'll Google this and start learning about it. I appreciate the help!
Pete. (l33t FS) said:If nobody answers by tomorrow, I have at least two reference books in the Batcave with the correct answer.
.030" can't hurt, shooting from the hip.
Please do share the official answer when time permits!
IMHO it runs as is so I'd hold off on the ignition tune up until you upgrade to electronic ignition.
dyintorace (Forum Supporter) said:
I have a new cap and rotor button, new plugs and new wires ready to go. It was running before (though I haven't driven it further than the length of my driveway) so I'll switch out these parts and then take a breath. Thanks for all of the advice!
Good plan. Stampie's advice is good as well. But we can continue the pro's and con's of when to upgrade to the electronic ignition as well, If ya like. I can explain the points function in pretty basic terms, as well; or just post some info I collected for the Duraspark stuff. Or both!
Pardon my drawing, but a note on gapping a spark plug:
Sparks like to jump to pointy things, but the easier it is to make a spark, the less energy there is in the spark. If its too hard for a spark to jump the gap, it will not fire the air / fuel mixture.
That's why electronic ignitions will spec. larger gaps; they put out enough energy to "jump" the larger gap. ( we'll talk more about this later)
In setting the gap by moving the ground strap, be careful not tho nick or gouge it - this could cause a "pointy thing" and could make the spark jump to it instead of where its supposed to. Pointy things also get hotter than other areas, and can contribute to pre ignition (also called pinging or detonation.)
Also , you want to keep the ground strap Parallel to the flat of the electrode, and even... not over hanging or partway across. Kinda hard to do if they need much adjustment.
They make a special pliers like tool to help do this, but most folks don't think they are worth it. YMMV
"Modern" electronic ignitions are much more forgiving in spark gap than the old points style. Another plus for the upgrade. But attention to detail is the key. Some folks will even "index" their spark plugs, so each plug faces the way they want them to, in each cylinder. No need for you to learn anything like that for a long time yet! But, each plug being gapped the same will help the life of your points enough to put the effort in.
Many years ago, my dad told me not to use flat feeler gauges to set plug gaps, but to use a round feeler, made for spark plugs. Every parts store had them near the registers. The flat gauge could give a false reading if the strap is not flat. (pic 3). I learned since it is important to be flat, though!
I hope I not making this sound harder than it is!
There is some of this info for points gap, but your current plan, ya might not need to know it!
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