Max777
Max777 None
1/19/10 1:14 p.m.

Hi, my name is Max, I'm a student at Parkland College in IL. Our school's motorsports program just aquired a 1986 VW GTI that we want to use as an autocross car. We have a Civic right now, so this will be a long term project.

The engine that is in it right now is a SOHC that is not running too well. (140psi compression and 60% leakage, excessive blowby into the crankcase) We suspect it has hi comp pistons in it. I did a bit of searching on these and found out that the 16V motor is pretty easy to swap in...

The question is, my instructor wants to convert the car from the stock injection system to EFI, (possibly using a megasquirt)

What are your opinions on this? How hard is the swap, parts necessary, etc? I am doing some searching right now, but in the meantime, if anyone has info about this, it would be of great help.

Working facilities and tools are not an issue btw, we do have a budget however.

Also, we currently have main and rod bearings for the 8v engine, as well as piston rings. Would it make sense to rebuild the stock engine?

DeadSkunk
DeadSkunk Reader
1/19/10 1:24 p.m.

Hi! Max, I've autocrossed both the 8V and 16V VWs in years past. I'd suggest sticking with the 8V because it has better low end torque and you already have it and parts to fix it. The Megasquirt should be able to enhance the drivability even further. I've never played with the system, so I'll leave that to others for comments on difficulty, etc. Any further engine mods (ex. a camshaft) would be simpler and cheaper on the 8V, too. Just my $0.02 worth. I'm curious to see what others say.

EricM
EricM Dork
1/19/10 1:31 p.m.
Max777 wrote: Hi, my name is Max, I'm a student at Parkland College in IL.

Hi! My name is Eric and I graduated from Parkland in 1995 with an A.S. in Physics (then I graduated from Illinois with a B.S. In GeoPhysics).

I am in back in champaign after a world tour, and I race with CCSCC.

How can I help?

Max777
Max777 New Reader
1/19/10 2:20 p.m.

Thanks for the offer! I will mention this to my instructor, and see what he says. Do you have any experience with VW?

The two main concerns right now for us will be removing the engine and teardown to further diagnose the problems with it.

Also, the stock injection system is finicky on the car, so we are looking to see if it will be possible to convert the engine to EFI, as posted.

I've been reading the Haynes manual about the car as well, and trying to figure out if the stock stuff will work.

BTW: car starts and runs, but it wont stay running and is not drivable.

Matt B
Matt B Reader
1/19/10 2:21 p.m.

I would think the engine choice would be at least be partly determined by class. Know what class you guys want to build it for?

Max777
Max777 New Reader
1/19/10 2:28 p.m.

Well, this is part of my research right now. The car was used for road racing in it's previous life.

Mods:

stripped interior, krik racing roll bar, racing bucket, tociko shocks, ground control coilovers, advan tires (really old) and fabbed exhaust (cat deleted).

mtn
mtn SuperDork
1/19/10 2:31 p.m.

Nothing to add other than that I'll probably be seeing you for some of the early spring autocrosses at Rantoul.

ratghia
ratghia Reader
1/19/10 2:59 p.m.

I have a 1984 GTI and love the 8v engine. The only engine I have ever considered putting in it is a 20v 1.8T. You can find them for a little more then a 16v but they have more power and lots of torque.

EricM
EricM Dork
1/19/10 3:25 p.m.

Dual Mikuni Carbs on the 8V motor. Simple, yet powerful.

Tom Heath
Tom Heath Marketing / Club Coordinator
1/19/10 3:51 p.m.

You know, we're hearing a lot of rumblings from colleges looking to put a challenge effort together for $2010. Your school could be one of them...

DukeOfUndersteer
DukeOfUndersteer Dork
1/19/10 3:55 p.m.
ratghia wrote: I have a 1984 GTI and love the 8v engine. The only engine I have ever considered putting in it is a 20v 1.8T. You can find them for a little more then a 16v but they have more power and lots of torque.

you would need some type of Immobilizer defeat for that, though that would be cool. How bout a VR6?

ratghia
ratghia Reader
1/19/10 4:10 p.m.

I believe there is a company who can flash the chip for you. If you want to do the 1.8T swap I would check out this website.

turboswede
turboswede GRM+ Memberand SuperDork
1/19/10 4:28 p.m.

I think someone wrote a book about modifying GTi's, just wish I knew what it was called or who wrote it ;)

Ah, here it is on Amazon. the author's name is Per Schroeder?

that name sounds oddly familiar:

http://grassrootsmotorsports.com/staff/Per/

Hmmm, small world ;)

There is a lot of latent VW watercooled knowledge here, between Per, Anson (the dual-engined Scirrocco guy) and some of the others I think you'll have more information and knowledge on your hands than you'll know what to do with very soon :)

Sounds like you've got CIS (which as I described to a Porsche buddy of mine as a carburetor that threw up all over the engine bay) which is known to be very pissy with vacuum leaks and poor vacuum signals. Either download and read all of the documentation on how to repair and troubleshoot CIS or do the same for MegaSquirt if you're more comfortable working with electronic systems, wiring and software.

There is a lot of parts swapping/hot rodding possible with the A1 chassis. For a while the 2.0L DOHC motor was the hot setup, then the VR6 and the 20V turbo. I don't know enough about them to argue the merits, but I'm sure someone will come along and help flesh some of that out for you.

The chassis is capable of doing quite a bit, provided you do some work in the right areas and realize that it will be somewhat limited by being lightweight, FWD and quite basic.

Sounds like fixing the engine is the first step along with planning the rest of the work on the car depending on where/when it will be raced.

unevolved
unevolved Reader
1/19/10 5:02 p.m.
Tom Heath wrote: You know, we're hearing a lot of rumblings from colleges looking to put a challenge effort together for $2010. Your school could be one of them...

Are there other colleges coming besides us and GA Tech? That'd be awesome if there were.

To the OP, if you're interested in starting up a school-sponsored Challenge team, let me know. I'm the Project Manager for Texas A&M's program, and our school funds our shop and car. On the surface, this event seems like a junkyard race, but in reality there's a huge amount of engineering merit for things other than motorsports.

First and foremost is the budget. From an engineering perspective, this teaches students how to creatively solve a series of problems in a group. When you can't throw money at a problem, your creative juices get flowing and you come up with very unique and elegant solutions, something that can be applied to any area of engineering. Reducing cost is always appreciated, and here, the organizers just force your hand.

Second is the technical aspect. To make any car go fast and be successful, you have to have a concrete understanding of the science behind what you're doing. Turbocharged engines are a great application of your Fluid Mechanics and Power classes.

Third is the project management behind the cars. When we were deciding on our car for last year, we approached it as we would any other engineering problem. We set forth a goal (show up at the '09 Challenge with a running, respectable, competitive car in that order), and derived the steps necessary to achieve that goal, and laid out a timeline. For us, that car was a 92-95 Civic. We ran a simple engine we could understand, supported the chassis with quality parts, and made sure to not get ourselves in over our heads to ensure we would place and earn our school some respect our rookie season. I feel like we succeeded. We took the same approach to this year's car, and we're optimistic about success in 2010 as well.

On an administrative level, I have the responsibility of managing a two-car, 30+ person racing team's logistical, technical, human, and financial resources. It all comes down to me and my assistants to make sure we show up with two running, competitive race cars in October. That's a lot of responsibility, but it sure as hell will look good on a resume, and it's for damn sure rewarding.

Please don't hesitate to contact me if there's anything I can do to help you guys show up to Gainesville in October. There's nothing more fun than missing two exams and a lab to go racing.

jrw1621
jrw1621 Dork
1/19/10 5:14 p.m.
Tom Heath wrote: You know, we're hearing a lot of rumblings from colleges looking to put a challenge effort together for $2010. Your school could be one of them...

Do any of these schools have journalism depts and people looking to get an article published?
Do any have photo-journalists looking to get some pictures published?

I see some interesting tie-ins and maybe a features section. Maybe the section could be called "The road to higher education" or similar.

Get the reader (customer) while they are young and keep them for life!

Maybe pull some advertisers like Mechanic Schools?

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