vega
vega
3/4/09 11:11 a.m.

i have a base model 240sx 5 speed that a kid attempted to swap a ka24de motor in (miserably failed) i was in the prossess of finishing the swap- cuz it also came with another ka24de. Well i was then going to turbo it and blah. and it is so much money to go sr rb or even turbo ka to make the power i want to make that i have been looking at other options. what motor make alot of power in the statesthat i can swap in. teh couple i have come down to is ; 1: the 4g63 6 bolt turbo motor out of the first gen eclipse. there is even a mounting late onto the auto style rwd gm platform trans' the motor barely modified easily makes well over 300hp relaibly the problem with eclispes is the tranny and its eitehr awd or fwd. bleh for a real performace car ie zr1 ferarri etc. yes teh new gtr is great but the eclipse has nowhere near that kind of tech behind it. so i am thinking about bolting a 4g63 to a 240sx tranny that i already have. making my own plate and atempting to figure out eh swap. OR

2: i can use teh new mickney motorsports kit to swap in the chevy small block old school style. keep it carbed mildly build it and come up with a drivshaft and all that.


heres my problem What is going to be the cheapest build to 300 hp out of the motor with a 150 shot of nos. (btw weight is not a concern of mien i have already factored it in either way btw the best handling cars are 54/46 or 53/47

i haven't come up with cheap gm tranny that i like (i wants some kind of overdrive- a 3 spd th350 or 400 are cheap and strong BUT its a 3spd no gearing no top end i AM going to swap in the 3:56 gears fromt eh q45 with the vlsd that came int he r200v that it has so that'll help but not enough in my mindset correct me if im wrong pus if i go manual then i have to swap all teh hydrolic shtuf for the gm manuals which are hella lots of $$$ )

Here is another factoid TUNING gee which is going to be easier to swap as far as tech difficulty probably the carbed sbc no wires less weight plus no figuing out what does teh yellow striped wire do on that thing there???? the 4g63 (turbo btw if you did not figure that out) i would have to come up with wiring it and i cant tune it (not really) at idle and ease of the sbc i need computer stuff now play with different ratios i would say it is the cheapest to tune for the import stuff though hence one of the reasons why i chose it of the two, it has a eprom chip in the comp.

so i am getting the poitn nwo that i haev no idea which IDEA is going to be the best all around car- say its for the challenge (its not but thats kinda the point of grassroots motorsports imho- to make the cheapest best all around race car plus it being a daily driver mines not but i want the possiblity in case my b20 vtec blwos up in my si)

so all that info now said; what do you all think i should do i have too much info to really make this decision myself. sbc carbed? OR 4g63(t) with 240sx tranny?

93celicaGT2
93celicaGT2 HalfDork
3/4/09 11:15 a.m.

The B20 Vtec WILL probably blow up at some point. B20 pistons don't like the new "squish" area with vtec heads.

Let's ask the important question first.... what's your budget?

The 2jzgte swap is getting more and more popular around where i am.

Gearhead_42
Gearhead_42 Dork
3/4/09 11:25 a.m.

Even better question... how can anyone possibly screw up putting a de in place of an e? That just seems unpossible to me!

vega
vega New Reader
3/4/09 11:44 a.m.

the car HAD a ka24e i was putting in the ka24de

i was looking at that the 7mgte would be a better swap BUT its front heaving way more than the sbc. WHY? well its cuz it way past the frotn wheels btw the 2jz makes a lot of power but is heavier than the 7m way more money also.

ivd done alot of research these really are the best two motors seriously. not the ca or sr or ka or rb or vg vq (nissan) lt1 (too many sensors) ls1(too much money in comparison) 2jz (L6 = too heavy past the front wheels) and lost more i was even looking at the older motors the 280zx the L28T etc. or teh 2.5 dodge mitsu turbo or the 2.3 turbo (ford) or teh 5.0 or the sbm motors.

so either the 4g63 or the old style sbc. and the the cost thing - I got money i would just like to spend the least amount possible is all - if i didnt haev money i would not have got a car to swap a motor into.

93celicaGT2
93celicaGT2 HalfDork
3/4/09 12:17 p.m.

Ugh. My brain hurts.

Saying that the 2jzgte is heavier than a 7mgte is like saying Antarctica is colder than the Arctic. They're both heavy as hell. Like.... 500lbs + heavy dressed.

If you think you can get a 4g63T in that car and at 300whp for cheaper than you can get an SR20DET in there and at the same power, then go for it.

In the meantime, you'll have to make custom mounts for the 4g63, find a way to make the tranny work, do a TON of wiring work, etc etc etc...

I'd pay the relatively small additional amount in this case for ease of mind and work to do the SR20DET. They're both a 2.0 Turbo motor, why make it hard? The only way i would consider attempting this, (personally, your results may vary) is if i got a PERFECTLY running 4g63T powered Eclipse dumped in my lap for about $500 or less, and the motor was rebuilt by a reputable shop within the last 20k miles.

Salanis
Salanis SuperDork
3/4/09 12:44 p.m.
vega wrote: so i am getting the poitn nwo that i haev no idea which IDEA is going to be the best all around car-

Umm... okay... The "shift" key and spell checker are your friend. They're much more valuable than big red text.

The easiest swap will be to stick with an engine that the car was engineered to take, like an SR.

If you're going to go to the trouble to do a more complicated swap, you might as well go all out and swap in an LSx.

vega wrote: btw the best handling cars are 54/46 or 53/47

Umm... no. I have no idea where you would have gotten that impression.

xci_ed6
xci_ed6 New Reader
3/4/09 4:12 p.m.

SBC

thatsnowinnebago
thatsnowinnebago GRM+ Memberand HalfDork
3/4/09 4:15 p.m.

maybe I missed it somewhere, but why not just stick with the KA24DE and add boost? You already have the motor. I'm pretty sure Sport Compact Car did just that and it turned out to be pretty cheap.

93celicaGT2
93celicaGT2 HalfDork
3/5/09 7:13 a.m.

^ To add to that i know someone here that put down 347whp on a stock KA24DE w/ turbo, and it's held together for over a year now.

G_Stock
G_Stock New Reader
3/5/09 10:25 a.m.

I think the best option here is to just give it to me along with all the spare parts. or just get reputable shop to install a stock KA24E back into it, sell it and then get a Smart car. It'll save me the head ache of trying to read another garbled post.

96DXCivic
96DXCivic Reader
3/5/09 10:50 a.m.

I don't see how it cost that much to turbocharge the car. You can get a turbo manifold for like $400, then go to a junkyard (or ebay) find a turbo and a decent sized intercooler. Then Megasquirt it. You should be able to do that for less then $1000 and that will be cheaper then any of your other options.

stan_d
stan_d Dork
3/7/09 7:27 a.m.

I can hook you up with a cross member with sbc mount on it all ready

pres589
pres589 New Reader
3/8/09 5:48 p.m.

This thread is an abortion.

PHeller
PHeller Reader
3/8/09 7:12 p.m.

Vega, this isn't Nico or 240SXForums.

People on here are extremely helpful, but you've gotta make sense in your posts. You also can't make assumptions about things, because often times they are wrong.

I suppose that's why our currently GRM 240SX community is pretty low...most everyone else is a fanboy interested in drifting and coilovers.

ww
ww Dork
3/9/09 12:32 a.m.

I'm sorry, I've swapped a dozen RB, SR, LSx and BBF motors into various cars, and I can't for the life of me figure out the logic here. The KA24E to KA24DE swap is the most common and well documented swap in the early 240SX. The KA turbo upgrade is also a very common path on these cars.

The amount of custom fabrication necessary to do any of the other swaps makes them a complete waste of time unless you're doing it simply for the engineering exercise.

stan_d
stan_d Dork
3/9/09 10:54 a.m.

what about 345ftlb at 1800 rpm in a 2700lb car I don't think a turbo ka can compete

93celicaGT2
93celicaGT2 HalfDork
3/9/09 11:11 a.m.

I agree that that would be cool.... but i never understood the obsession with tractor-like amounts of torque in light cars.

If you want to go fast, keep it in the powerband, wherever that is. A KA will spool damn near anything....

ww
ww Dork
3/9/09 12:24 p.m.
stan_d wrote: what about 345ftlb at 1800 rpm in a 2700lb car I don't think a turbo ka can compete

Well, the KA DE can make pretty significant amounts of torque especially when turbo charged, but any power number is useless unless the chassis is designed to handle it and can put it to the ground in any useful way.

My RB26DETT powered 240Z makes 448 ft/lbs of torque to the wheels, but it's almost completely useless in anything short of high speed passing runs or 3rd gear roll-ons on the highway.

Salanis
Salanis SuperDork
3/9/09 1:10 p.m.
ww wrote: The amount of custom fabrication necessary to do any of the other swaps makes them a complete waste of time unless you're doing it simply for the engineering exercise.

"...but this one goes one higher."

ww
ww Dork
3/9/09 1:45 p.m.

This one goes to 11!

stan_d
stan_d Dork
3/9/09 3:27 p.m.

I have humbled a few with tire screech in 5th to 4th drop at 70 mph. I have a grin every time I drive it.

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