1st gen CTS-V vs E39 M5

I would not own an e60 m5 without some sort of warranty or maybe you got it for some absurdly low price, like free, and can sock away $10k or so for possible maintenance issues. My friend had one under warranty and the warranty got liberally used.

The V downsides have been noted, including the rear end. The interior I think is kinda crap.

E39 M5, the only downside I've heard of is the possible carbon build up in the secondary air system.

https://www.turnermotorsport.com/t-tech-E39-M5-Carbon-Build-Up

Turner Motorsport has done an excellent job of lowering the resale value of E39 M5s with that article

I'd be more concerned about VANOS maintenance. You can DIY it, but it's a long day and it is not for beginners. It involves some advanced moves and problem solving. Makes a big difference in how the car runs, though.

You'll find that the DIY E39 M5 posts always blame everything on the MAFs. I've had multiple things go wrong with the car that were blamed on the MAFs, and it's never been the MAFs. The car is a tough one to diagnose at times. I had one bad O2 sensor that had me running in circles for a long time - even reading right off the bad sensor didn't show it as bad.

The cars are hard on their bushings. They're heavy and powerful, and one of the ones on the front is basically a short-lived consumable. If you get some shake under braking, it's probably done. At 100k, all the ball joints in the suspension will be all worn out. Not too bad a job in the front (if you like puzzles), I haven't taken on the rear yet. Also, rear shocks involve disassembly of basically the entire rear half of the car.

Drove an m5 today that had a rearend clunk when you let the clutch out. Sounds expensive. No wonder he was only trying to get 6k-ish for it. Along with fading paint and worn tires. And P0492 code. I should offer him $3500.

If you want to own one of these, you need a Peake code reader. And mine throws the equivalent of P0492 very sporadically, it might go away for months once you clear it.

Is the difference in interior between the 1st and 2nd gen CTS-V that pronounced? I've only been in a 2nd gen and it was a nice place to be.

Keith Tanner wrote: If you want to own one of these, you need a Peake code reader. And mine throws the equivalent of P0492 very sporadically, it might go away for months once you clear it.

Thank you good sir!

That clunk is rear subframe bushings?

Brett_Murphy wrote: Is the difference in interior between the 1st and 2nd gen CTS-V that pronounced? I've only been in a 2nd gen and it was a nice place to be.

Totally different. V1 kind of the epitome of early 2000s GM getting interior wrong when it should be right. If I could I'd get a V2 above all these cars. Still out of range though.

V1 CTSV seems like it would have been an amazing car if it had a bow tie on the grille rather than a wreath.

EDIT: actually no then I think it would have come with interior literally made of toast.

could be diff bushings, rtabs maybe. or subframe bushings.

this isn't too far from you (or me ;) ) since the seller didn't mention it, i would bet it isn't bar'd but you could jump through the hoops and have a sweet ride that is truly street legal.

http://orangecounty.craigslist.org/cto/5781629590.html

yupididit wrote:

Keith Tanner wrote: If you want to own one of these, you need a Peake code reader. And mine throws the equivalent of P0492 very sporadically, it might go away for months once you clear it.

Thank you good sir! That clunk is rear subframe bushings?

Mine's got a hollow thump in the rear over certain kinds of bumps, I've pegged it as control arm bushings. They don't have a tendency to tear the rear subframe apart like some of the 3-series, though, so I'll bet your clunk is fixable.

In reply to Keith Tanner:

I was just curious, I wouldn't buy this car unless he gave it to me for $3500. The clunk is loud and you can feel it. The seller was a deaf and he even felt it. But, if the others I'll be test driving have it then at least I'll have some knowledge of it. It was rather annoying.

Honestly if it was my money I would be shopping CTS-Vs. Yes the M5 is more special but the possibility of enormous repair bills or months of down time waiting for me to do major repairs would scare me off. The CTS-V just seems cheaper to keep on the road despite comparable performance. But then I've driven neither and I am a notorious cheapass when it comes to stuff like that.

yupididit wrote: In reply to Keith Tanner: I was just curious, I wouldn't buy this car unless he gave it to me for $3500. The clunk is loud and you can feel it. The seller was a deaf and he even felt it. But, if the others I'll be test driving have it then at least I'll have some knowledge of it. It was rather annoying.

$3500 is scrap price. Those rear wheels alone are worth $250-300 each even in banged up condition.

If the noise is that bad, it should be easy to find with a lift.

I've never driven a CTS-V, so I can't compare the two. It's got a very effective engine, no question The M5 is what happens when you give German engineers free reign. That can be good or bad.

I think it totally depends on what you want out of the car.

As a true DD appliance type thrill seeker, the V1 gets my vote. It's floor on value is essentially what it's drivetrain is worth, much like what happens to LS F-bodies. Nobody buys a V1 for it's interior, you do it to get an LS with a 6-speed in a factory 4-door sedan for dirt cheap.

As a keeper, polish, drive and enjoy car, the M5 is the "classic". It's prettier, better inside, and appreciating. But if it's the car you need to fix overnight and whip on daily, the well known E39 woes and costly maintenance will take it's toll. There's no VANOS on an LS

Does that make one better? It all depends on what you want out of it.

yupididit wrote:

Brett_Murphy wrote: Is the difference in interior between the 1st and 2nd gen CTS-V that pronounced? I've only been in a 2nd gen and it was a nice place to be.

Totally different. V1 kind of the epitome of early 2000s GM getting interior wrong when it should be right. If I could I'd get a V2 above all these cars. Still out of range though.

The first gen V was a rebadged bastard Opel whcih likely explains things. I say this out of love as I am currently shopping V1's, V2's, XJR's, and ISF's. What I miss in the V1 and XJR are compensated for by being able to acquire for sub10k for decent examples. The other two are 25-35k for nice examples....The 25-25k range gets you into basically everything you couldn't afford new like nice M's and AMG's but I'm trying to swear off German Daily's.

Have yet to come across a V1 under 10k that had an operating motor.

All the V2's near 30k are 100k+ miles or salvage.

IS-F, I wish

I saw a really nice XJR x308 parked in the handicap spot. It was gorgeous.

Honestly after driving the V1 and e39 M5, I prefer the M5 unless I could get a V1 for a steal. And my wife absolutely loves the Leguna Seca blue cars.

With that said, there's a few V1's I'm trying to look at. They're about the same price as the M5. It does seem like you get more for your money with the m5.

I don't think the M5 came in Laguna Seca blue (unless special ordered). They did come in Lemans blue, which is what mine was. It is a stunning color.

yah that one. getting it mixed with the m3.

Brett_Murphy wrote: Is the difference in interior between the 1st and 2nd gen CTS-V that pronounced?

Yes.

The lemans blue is really nice on the M.

So....I spent time in a V2 ctsV. That's what I want so I'm going to save for one of those instead.

I stole this though

01 XJR silver on black.

Is that one of the supercharged I6 ones?

Supercharged v8

Did you buy it? I love those things. Good looking rocket ships. I'm curious to hear your ownership experience.