1st Gen Outback, Nightmare?

So this Outback ('98 I think) popped up for sale near me for $800 obo with 163k and it says it needs a head gasket. I know that's a common issue on these, but how much of a nightmare is it to replace one?

I've always liked this body style and the body is actually really clean for its vintage.

Take a look? Run? What say ye?

In reply to SyntheticBlinkerFluid:

I know there are some years that have a gasket that leaks internally, causing cross contamination of oil and coolant along with whatever havoc that wreaks, and some that leak externally and are relatively benign failures. I want to say the earlier DOHC engines are the former and the SOHC engines the latter.

Puchase, swap engine for H6, make glorious Porsche noises

The second gen Legacy ("first gen" Outback) is a pretty easy car to work on. At this generation basically everything still interchanges with the Impreza, boneyard parts are common, and it doesn't have a lot of the "luxury car!!!" trim pieces that they added on the 3rd gen that break and annoy you (like the butterfly-opening cup holder). I think they're more fun to drive than the tubbier third gen as well.

98 means it should have a DOHC ("Phase 1") 2.5L; these ones, as Furious_E said, have internal head gasket leaks. Usually they've been overheated a few times as a result, which isn't really great considering they're aluminum engines with a short crankshaft. If you do the head gaskets also budget for everything else you usually replace when an engine has been overheated; hopefully it was parked when it started and it wasn't daily driven while overheating like many of the head-gasket Phase 1s I've seen for sale.

If you're planning on this being a "forever car" and send the engine to a machine shop, make sure they use an appropriate torque plate. You can pick them up for an integer multiple of the price of another used engine from a place like Company23. In your shoes I would probably just replace overheating-vulnerable components, fresh head gaskets, redo the timing belt and friends (idlers, tensioners, water pump) and beat on the car like it owed me money, which it would.

Replacing the gaskets themselves aren't hard; I would yank the motor and do it on a stand, but on these cars you could probably do it in the engine bay if you really like taking 10x as long. Plus, yanking the motor will let you replace the rear oil separator plate.

SOHC ("Phase 2") EJ25s usually just leak externally, so you can keep tooling around like normal and just top up the coolant and oil when it gets low. I'm embarrassed to say how long my daily driver has been in this status.

If you buy the Outback and replace the head gaskets, make sure to get steel/MLS 96-99 Phase 1 turbo gaskets to replace them. The dealership will give you more crappy stock gaskets if you come in with your VIN:

if your phase 1 2.5 needs headgaskets get 11044AA610 if your phase II 2.5 needs headgaskets MAKE SURE to get 11044AA642. The dealership will not give you these gaskets if you give them your vin.

If the EJ25 is pooched, one option which I like quite a bit is that the Phase 1 EJ25 and the Phase 1 EJ22 basically share their intake manifold, electronics, etc so you can bolt in a stone-reliable EJ22 in lieu of the EJ25 and give up about 25 horsepower in exchange for never having to worry about head gaskets ever again. They also fit the character of the car a little better (the EJ22 is the greatest tractor engine ever made).

Honestly that picture looks so nice I would already have bought it and put head gaskets or an EJ22 in.

SyntheticBlinkerFluid wrote: So this Outback ('98 I think) popped up for sale near me for $800 obo with 163k and it says it needs a head gasket. I know that's a common issue on these, but how much of a nightmare is it to replace one? I've always liked this body style and the body is actually really clean for its vintage. Take a look? Run? What say ye?

That clean id at least take a look. Subarus dont look like that in salt states.

I love the look of that body style and have owned one. I would recommend looking elsewhere.

Coming out of the Durango situation, I'd not want to buy another vehicle known for chronic issues.

Powar wrote: I'd not want to buy another vehicle known for chronic issues.

And what unicorn vehicle would that be? Even Hondas and Toyotas have "chronic" issues if you look hard enough.

I also have a soft spot for this era Subie. My mother had a '95 LS wagon for 12 years. It was a good car. She donated it to her church who passed it along to a member in need. He did some work on the car and I believe is still driving it today. I kinda kick myself for not buying a 5 spd version I saw for sale a few years ago.

Ian F wrote:

Powar wrote: I'd not want to buy another vehicle known for chronic issues.

And what unicorn vehicle would that be? Even Hondas and Toyotas have "chronic" issues if you look hard enough. I also have a soft spot for this era Subie. My mother had a '95 LS wagon for 12 years. It was a good car. She donated it to her church who passed it along to a member in need. He did some work on the car and I believe is still driving it today. I kinda kick myself for not buying a 5 spd version I saw for sale a few years ago.

Sure, but broken Camry engine mounts and flexpipes are not the same as blown head gaskets, spun bearings, trans snouts wearing unevenly, and massive rust issues. You don't have to look hard to see the issues with these.

I'm not saying he should buy a Camry, but there are other enthusiast cars that would probably serve better without having to build an engine--- even at this price point. I've BTDT with both the Camry AND the near twin of the car in question in this thread.

I like the cars. Don't care for the engine much - between the 97 GT (same drivetrain) that my parents owned and the 97 GT that my friend owned, they lost two or three engines due to oiling problems and also lost a head gasket. Great engine to drive though. Torques.

In reply to Powar:

Maybe where you live. Not by me. Anything that runs with a price under $2000 might last a week on the market, regardless of condition or issues.

I just looked at a '96 525i wagon along my commute. I've been passing this car in the driveway for years. This week it had a For Sale sign on it, so I stopped to look at it. Had a massive list in the window of mechanical issues and the body was beat, but nothing out of line for the $650 asking price. If it had been a 5 spd, I'd own it (Hello Rally-x!). It was gone/sold two days later.

Ian F wrote: In reply to Powar: Maybe where you live. Not by me. Anything that runs with a price under $2000 might last a week on the market, regardless of condition or issues.

I wish that were the case here. I'd have a bunch of cars for sale.

How's the rear wheel wells?

In reply to Esoteric Nixon:

They really only have surface rust on the front corners on each side. I have a feeling this was an old persons car and then was given to or bought by a younger person.

I bought one about 5 years ago for $500, beat on it in Rally-x and volunteering at rallies and then sold it for $1000. It had 412k km's on it.

Only sold it to buy a WRX.

Get a good set of HG's like the previous guy said and go for it!!