1st rule of going fast on the street is...

The thing that always sticks in my mind is this: Just because I have control of my car right at X speed and Y lane with cars ABC at such and such a distance right now does not mean that someone else will not put their car in a position that compromises my ability to maintain those safety margins.

I.E. Yes I and my car are capable of going 35mph faster than everyone else on the freeway and threading between that semi and the minivan, but what happens when mid lane change the minivan slows down, or the VW bug merges, or the Semi crosses center by 1/2 tire width.... Other peoples actions can quickly change a situation you have under control into something dangerous quickly....

You cannot control other people and their actions, just because YOU have control does NOT mean anyone else does and you cannot know how they might react. I have NO ISSUE hammering it up to a reasonable speed on an onramp, maybe even 5-10 over, but going 120 on a freeway is just stupid.

Honestly after being on track, hammering public roads leaves alot to be desired.....

The problem with sharing street hooning exploits is that, even though most automotive enthusiasts have done it at some point or another, it inevitably comes across as D-Baggery...Or D-Bragging, if you will.

I don't speed. I lost my speedometer at the bottom of a lake during a terrible boating accident.

In reply to Driven5:

That, and then an accident occurs, and its traced back here, and GRM is ruined.

Driven5 wrote: The problem with sharing street hooning exploits is that, even though most automotive enthusiasts have done it at some point or another, it inevitably comes across as D-Baggery...Or D-Bragging, if you will.

Still, a safety first high horse (not that safety first is a bad thing) also comes off as d-baggery. Just a different kind. THERE MUST BE A MIDDLE GROUND.

RoughandReady wrote:

Driven5 wrote: The problem with sharing street hooning exploits is that, even though most automotive enthusiasts have done it at some point or another, it inevitably comes across as D-Baggery...Or D-Bragging, if you will.

Still, a safety first high horse (not that safety first is a bad thing) also comes off as d-baggery. Just a different kind. THERE MUST BE A MIDDLE GROUND.

Exactly. I mean people avacating only 5 over unless you're on the track...let's be realistic here.

bigbens6 wrote: Honestly after being on track, hammering public roads leaves alot to be desired.....

After hammering it on the track (even in a Kart) the freeway feels kinda dicey. Then you add idiots.

I have never broken speed limits, especially when riding with a group of sport bikes through Florida's horse farm estate roads.

Wally wrote:

mazdeuce wrote:

Giant Purple Snorklewacker wrote: I like to get a load on and speed indiscriminately thru school zones while shouting racial epitaphs out the windows. Is that more of what you were looking for?

I doubt he's exaggerating.

The school zone bit surprised me, I would have guessed playground.

Most responsible people realize that driving at more than 5/10th's through a playground would be beyond stupid.

Children are quick, and therefore hard to hit with a rabid squirrel fired out of a CO2-fueled spud-gun.

I have never gotten into a "race" with a detective through southern Ohio.

RoughandReady wrote: Still, a safety first high horse (not that safety first is a bad thing) also comes off as d-baggery. Just a different kind. THERE MUST BE A MIDDLE GROUND.

There is a middle ground...Do as you please. Just remember that if D-Baggy statements are not made in the first place, then D-Baggy replies (opposing or supporting) cannot follow.

There is a middle ground...Do as you please. Just remember that if D-Baggy statements are not made in the first place, then D-Baggy replies (opposing or supporting) cannot follow.

There it is, the simple answer.

stuart in mn wrote:

There is a middle ground...Do as you please. Just remember that if D-Baggy statements are not made in the first place, then D-Baggy replies (opposing or supporting) cannot follow.

There it is, the simple answer.

Exactly, i'll bench race bullE36M3 with the best of them, but no way on God's green earth i'm putting any of it in print (which is what posting stuff on the interwebz is) I just don't get this Facebook generation, nobody needs to know what time i E36M3 in the morning, not even me

Driven5 wrote:

RoughandReady wrote: Still, a safety first high horse (not that safety first is a bad thing) also comes off as d-baggery. Just a different kind. THERE MUST BE A MIDDLE GROUND.

There is a middle ground...Do as you please. Just remember that if D-Baggy statements are not made in the first place, then D-Baggy replies (opposing or supporting) cannot follow.

There's the thought I was having trouble getting into words.

Last night I got a bit ahead of myself on a ramp and hit about 85 getting on the highway last night. But I don't run on here and brag about that and how I had to get on the brakes a little the second I got merged, as that will attract d-baggery pissing competitions, and it all goes to E36 M3 from there.

In reply to carbon:

OK, since it was my comment that got your panties in a wad, I guess I'll step right up.

What you call d'baggery, I call responsible. In fact, I think your commentary kind of sounds like "that guy".

How about we look at what was actually posted?

Mr. neily posted this little tidbit about his excessive desire to pursue illegal activities:

neily wrote: does anyone know if the dragon gets patrolled by police ... it would be fun try do a sprint run up and down the dragon ... does anyone know the best time, day to do this

Then followed it up with:

neily wrote: ive tried solo racing but the thing is you dont get a lot of runs and race tracks are expensive and most are not technical enough for a miata ... ill try hill clibs

Honestly, I kind of doubt him.

I confessed clearly and openly in that thread to having pushed the limits on that road. That does not make it acceptable to attempt to treat it like a hill climb and ignore the risk to by-standers, Sunday drivers, and homeowners.

Have you ever driven the Dragon? It is the perfect place to kill someone, if you really want to. There are waay too many driveways and intersections that open directly to it.

I'm no Boy Scout. I regularly drive 7 mph over, take turns at the limit of adhesion, and accelerate from traffic lights at WOT. Go ahead- arrest me. But I support race tracks who provide safe venues to pursue our hobby in appropriate ways, and put my money where my mouth is. I have little respect for anyone who is too cheap to pay a couple of entrance fees.

I also know the publishers of this magazine/ website personally, and see no reason to encourage discussions of illegal activity on the pages of their privately owned publication. Out of respect for our hosts and their advertisers, I find it inappropriate to jack up their risk level.

So, I say again, in my most d'baggery voice possible...TAKE IT TO THE TRACK.

Even on grade A hooning roads, the unexpected can happen. Things like fresh gravel around that blind turn and a minivan full of kids. I still appreciate an amazing drive on a twisty farm road but have no doubt in my mind that my activities in the past, situations I thought I had under control, could have easily resulted in more than my own death. I still take greater than average risks on public roads because I've "learned" from past mistakes, but those delusions aside, I'm a slide away from killing someone. We all are.

I'm 99% sure there are no driveways on the dragon. Coming from the TN side, after you pass the overlook I can only think of one dirt road that intersects with it. And it has a gate that's been closed every time I've been there. After you get on the NC side and start going down to the gas station there is only two driveways and everyone I've seen has already backed it down by then.

Particularly since going racing I've slowed down on the street. I mean, my brain explodes when I'm behind people who drive well under the limit when it's posted at 25 mph, but I'm in the far right lane on the highway doing 64 in a 55 or 72 in a 65. Far right 'cause I hate being passed on the right.

All of this said, I took a friend for a little ride in the M3 track rat today. He has an e46 M3 and is shopping for a dedicated track day car. He was a multi-championship motorcycle road racer.

I drove to a road in a national park near my house. It has almost no traffic on Sundays and has a nice mix of short straights connecting clean, fast corners. The car had Hoosier R6s and Performance Friction PFC 01 pads on.

We turned on to the road and I attacked it like it was my go-for-broke Saturday qualifying lap in the sports racer. I grabbed 4th a couple times to keep from rev-limiting in 3rd.

It couldn't have been more than 1-1/2 minutes. I go well under 1'30" there in this car and that's 2 miles.

It was utterly irresponsible. If a cop had gone by in the opposite direction I'd either be fleeing and eluding - I know the park and was on Hoosiers, but obviously they have radios - or I'd be looking at losing my clean license all in one go.

I felt a little guilty.

But I do think now that using the M3 for hill climbs might be cool.

nicksta43 wrote: I'm 99% sure there are no driveways on the dragon.

You are right. I stand corrected.

I was mixing a few things in my head. There are not many driveways and cross streets.

Still a public road. Still a great place to hang a motorcycle in a tree, or plow under a truck.

Here's a video for those that don't know it:

Dragon video

Last minute or so is particularly hair-raising, watching tractor trailers try to maneuver it.

It will never rival the thrill of driving Laguna Seca or even Road Atlanta.

And I'd still rather respect our hosts by avoiding advocating stuff that is patently illegal.

"The first rule of (insert illegal activity here), is you do not talk about (insert illegal activity here)."

Generally speaking, it's a good rule to live by.

I see lots of great roads that I want to drive like a race car driver on, I don't do that not because its bad to street race but because our roads in Michigan are such E36 M3 you just don't want to go fast over any of that.

Usually on back roads I practice my smoothness over out right speed. I used to do outright speed before I started auto/rallycross. Now it just seems boring since for me to get a good sensation like at an event with runoff for error, I need to be at that limit where a mistake can't be made. And I have had a few dumb moments in the past.

This is why I always tell people go to an event and really learn to drive. For me back roads don't do much anymore because I know my safe limit and I stick to that. And it's usually not where near 100 percent. Same goes for corners and freeway ramps. I should also add I drive like a grandpa most of the time even though I'm 22

I'm frequently telling people that if they are driving at 10/10ths in the street then they should learn to settle down and come to an autocross (at a minimum).

I find that an open car gives a much greater sensation of speed and fulfill a lot of that urge in me.

That said, American speed limits on the interstate system tend to be absurdly low for modern cars. If my car is designed to go 155mph and the road is open it feels positively tortuous to dawdle along at 65 the same as the 1973 Pinto on bald tires and no rear window. Can't there be some level of accomedation on our roadways?

I dont have the chance as much anymore because my driving times/distances/locales have changed (shrunk..) but i have a long history of doing stuff that some people would think is bat E36 M3 crazy in public and even in traffic.

The thing is, those same some people are the people i am the most paranoid about on the road. People who think the stuff i do is horribly unsafe are the same people who are too berkeleying timid to do anything more than what is required of them to get from a to b, meaning they are at 10/10ths of their known/proven ability just trying to keep up with traffic when everything is going normally.

Here's the thing. If you are content to sit in your spot in traffic and go the speed limit or less, you have no incentive to become a mind-reading road-genius like me, which means you are a lot more likely to accidentally cause some really stupid, dangerous, preventable stuff even without going fast. My level of interest in driving has brought me to the point where psychology is a huge part of how i drive. I observe, anticipate, and manipulate my surrounding drivers constantly to be able to have fun safely. That is to say nothing of car control! In public, its much more important to read people. Your non-w2w racing experience is of marginal importance at best. If you need to use it, you probably read someone wrong. 10/10ths car control is about as important on the street as concealed carry in public is. You MAY need it, but if you do it's probably because you overlooked a chance to NOT need it or you're only using it to get yourself out of some really stupid E36 M3 you shouldnt have done in the first place.

I frankly dont give a E36 M3 what anyone else thinks about the safety of my driving. I have a 100% perfect record of not hurting anyone, ever. EVER. There is not ONE police officer who can pull me over and talk to me about safety who can say he doesnt hurt people. They do. I dont.

Now, antagonize, annoy, manipulate, bother, startle, all that? Sure, i DO do that.

In reply to Vigo:

Re the discussion about d-bag comments begetting d-bag comments.