The biggest issue with a 2-post lift in a residential garage is how wide they are. Typically around 12 feet, not including room to move around it. If you can deal with that for the 95% of the time the average home wrencher will not be working on a car, then go for it.
AnthonyGS said:In reply to Keith Tanner :
Can you park another car next to that two post lift in an average 2 car garage? Can you park another underneath in that same garage?
Does an average 2 car garage have enough height for a lift in the first place? I've never owned one that did. I mean, since we're defining "average" as "what we want it to be to prove our point".
Just looked at the Bendpak site. Their narrow four post lift is 100" wide. Most of them are 110".
Their narrowest two post lift is...17" wide. It's for 1/10 scale RC cars :) Let's try again.
Their narrowest 1:1 scale two post is 125". So it's 2' wider, but of course that's just a single post that sticks out while a four post stakes out a full footprint. Mine's rated for 10,000 lbs so I can easily lift my 3/4 ton.
And yes, you can easily park a second car under a lifted two post.
But to me, it's all about utility. If all I was doing was oil changes and alignments, a four post would be great. But I'm always doing suspension or tire rotation or brakes, and I've done two engine R&Rs recently that required me to have the ability to get an engine hoist nosed right up to the front of the car, or enough clearance to drop a boxer engine down between the rails. I'm having a hard time trying to identify anything I've used my lift for that could have been done on a four post.
In terms of storage, keep in mind that it's a PITA to have to move one car to access another. It'll keep you from using the car that's up in the air on a regular basis just because of the farting around factor to get it out.
I have a Bendpak 4 post lift with 2 bridge jacks. I can (and have) completed absolutely all the work I want to do on my cars with it. I've never thought, "Man, I wish I had a 2 post lift for this job!". I have the space to drop a tranny out no sweat. Pretty sure I could drop a motor out as well but that's not something I've had to do.
I've done brakes, suspension, exhaust, rear diffs, axles, water pumps, radiators, intercoolers, downpipes, etc, etc on it and it's awesome.
My wife and kids can navigate around it just fine. It's awesome for storing the 911 during the winter. Yeah, it wasn't the cheapest and yeah Bendpak did give me one of the bridge jacks for free, so I only paid for one of them. However I'll never go back.
If I ever move into a garage-mahal my plan is to keep this 4 post lift and add 2 post lift as well.
Forget bridge jacks, get a four post and a QuickJack and you've got yourself a pretty interesting combination of tools.
Keith Tanner said:Forget bridge jacks, get a four post and a QuickJack and you've got yourself a pretty interesting combination of tools.
If the 4-post has enough room in the middle, and height when fully lowered, to allow the QuickJack to remain in place most of the time - and the QuickJack has enough height to lift the wheels off the ramps while on the 4-post - that seems like it would be convenient 99% of the time.
In reply to Keith Tanner :
Would you put the quick-jack on the four post? I guess with some rubber it would be unlikely to slide.
Edit: QuickJack Europe has done and it looks pretty cool.
I'd definitely put the QJ on the four post rails. Why would it slide? I am making the fundamental assumption that the lift is level :) It's got little feet and when you've lifted a car, there's a fair bit of point load on them. You'd have to try pretty hard to shift a car that was up on one.
A QJ is low enough that a car can straddle it - mine is currently under my classic Mini, and I often have it slid under my rolling workbench. You just can't drive the wheels over it. It would be a bit of a pain in the butt to deal with occasionally but if you're stuck on a four post lift it would add the ability to do a lot of other work. Also, unlike bridge jacks, you can use the QJ away from the four post. I have had a car on the two post lift and another on the QJ at the same time. Heck, I had that situation this weekend.
That's a good solution that's much cheaper than 2 bridge jacks. However I wouldn't want to have to throw those things around everytime I wanted the wheels off the car. They're heavy and I'm solo in the garage most the time. The bridge jacks are convenient.
That's pretty clever. I have 2 sliding jacks on my lift and they're way better than nothing, but they also take up a lot of space. you have to be thoughtful about positioning when you're doing exhaust/drivetrain work.
My average size 2 car garage has a 10 foot ceiling. Most newer houses do. So no, a 2 post lift is too wide and will not allow for 2 cars in the garage. A single or double 4 lost lift will work. The 4 post quick jack combo is intriguing because I could quick jack in the other stall or driveway too. That's some versatility.
In reply to Durty :
That's pretty ingenious.
Ian F said:The biggest issue with a 2-post lift in a residential garage is how wide they are. Typically around 12 feet, not including room to move around it. If you can deal with that for the 95% of the time the average home wrencher will not be working on a car, then go for it.
This is the real problem with them. Personally I have both but I use the 4 post for almost everything that is not suspension and brakes. If I had two of the rolling jacks that fit on the 4 post I would have bought two four posts. I have put some photos up to show just how wide they really are. Also to the low height arm ones are very expensive in a 2 post. I have to drive the Viper up onto stacked wood ramps to get the arms underneath. Once its on there though it is so nice to work on.
AnthonyGS said:My average size 2 car garage has a 10 foot ceiling. Most newer houses do. So no, a 2 post lift is too wide and will not allow for 2 cars in the garage. A single or double 4 lost lift will work. The 4 post quick jack combo is intriguing because I could quick jack in the other stall or driveway too. That's some versatility.
I'm almost positive mine is an 8' ceiling, but of course it's an antique home that was built 30 years ago :) Keep in mind that you need clearance for your garage door as well, so even if the top of the garage is 10' above the floor you don't have 10' to work with.
Also, do the math. My E39 is about 56.5" high, and it's a typical sedan. The Model 3 is almost identical. If I put a four post lift in a true 10' garage, I couldn't stack them. With the BMW juuuuust touching the ceiling and a 6" depth to the rails on the four poster, the Tesla wouldn't fit.
Remember, the difference in width between a four post and a two post is only 2'.
I went 2 post for mine. It's 11' wide, but allow another foot or so at the wall, you can't have it on the edge of the slab.
Mine is asyemtrical, this moves the towers forward and allows easy opening of doors on the lift or next to it.
My garage has a 9 1/2 foot tall ceiling at the bottom of the trusses. Had them modified to allow the 12' lift to fit and clearance for the card roof. Wagons and utilities can have in issue as the "hole" is only so big. Also the garage door must be down to lift a car.
2 post was 1/2 the cost of a 4 with all the trimmings.
AnthonyGS said:My average size 2 car garage has a 10 foot ceiling. Most newer houses do. So no, a 2 post lift is too wide and will not allow for 2 cars in the garage. A single or double 4 lost lift will work. The 4 post quick jack combo is intriguing because I could quick jack in the other stall or driveway too. That's some versatility.
That is the opposite of my experience with car stacking. Drive on lifts require higher ceilings because you are not just driving under the car, but also under the lift.
Due to tumblehome, you can ususally slot a car in between the wheels of a car on a 2 post lift.
As someone who works on their cars, I'm in the 2-post is the only choice camp.. I can't think of a single thing the 4 post does better except for alignments. All of the people I know with 4 posts (admittedly, its only 3 or 4 off the top of my head) end up using it for junk storage since they don't want to shuffle any cars off of it that they're working on.
Like Keith, I've used my 4 post lift for getting engines, plows, and other various heavy things out of the bed of my pickup. I've done engine swaps by using the arm of the lift as a engine hoist and rolling the car into position. I lifted the bed of the pickup off to do the brake lines. I've held long pieces of wood & metal for various processes since it's a completely adjustable "work table." That's all in addition to the suspension, brake and other work that I've done.
Oh, and with my sports cars, I can fit a miata under a miata on the 2 post on a 10.5' ceiling, for the record.
Just one bridge jack costs almost as much as my 2 post lift cost! Yikes!
I'm following this discussion because I'm ready to pull the trigger... 2 or 4
A little background: When i built the new shop I put in 14' ceilings. And, I poured thicker concrete where I planned to put a 2 post. I'm thinking what I'm buying is to store one finished project up, so that I can do another. Since my shop is deeper than wide I'm considering mounting whatever close to the door so two cars could go in and out easy, and the new project would be in the rear. No need to move the project to drive the weekend cars. The cars I would store on it are less than 2,000#. I already have a drive on pit outdoors that I can walk under to do oil changes, etc.
I'm willing to drive anywhere within 400 miles of Tallahassee Florida to pick the unit up.
I'd like to be able to walk under the car without hitting my head.
What I'm looking for is best buy for the money of a 2 post or a 4 post. I'm afraid of all the claims on the interweb, rather hear recommendations from GRM family.
Used lifts can be a pretty good deal. As a nice side effect, they're also easier to install.
In reply to Keith Tanner :
2' is 10% of my garage width, can't give that up. My next contracted project is converting my garage door to a side drive opener and the track will go to the ceiling. That will leave about 9' 6" to play with. Thats 114". With your E39 and Tesla you'd be hosed.
The cars I will be putting on the lift are significantly smaller than an E39. My 996 is 51.4", and my 986 is 50.8". My 944 is 50.2" and my 94 Miata is 48.2" high. I should have enough clearance for my stuff.
I've worked around both for my entire career. The car i drove to work today is sitting on a 4post right now. The sliding jacks in the middle i call 'trolley jacks'. You may have more luck searching for them with that term. The thing about trolley jacks is they add a ton of expense.
But the thing about ALL lifts is they mostly won't fit in regular garages without seriously hampering it in some other way, as a lot of people have mentioned. If you aren't building a space FOR a lift, then your choice isn't what lift you like better, it's what will fit in your space.
I built myself a 500sqft home shop and I intentionally did not build it for a lift. I had the option to, i was starting from zero, and i still didn't. For me, if you have a small space the lift dominates it and can be a pita to work around. There's basically nothing I can't do in my home shop OTHER THAN easily getting a car more than 3 feet off the ground. I could still do it, but it would be very tedious. I can get to ~3ft pretty easy. I can drop an entire drivetrain on a front cradle and slide it out. For me the PITA factors of the lift outweighed the benefit, and that's after spending my entire career to date working on them.
Honestly, the biggest downside for me of having no lift is that I have this problem where if i lay down on a cool surface with a bunch of interesting stuff above me in my field of view, i tend to start daydreaming and generally being lazy. I have to TRY to stay productive once I become horizontal!
AnthonyGS said:In reply to Keith Tanner :
2' is 10% of my garage width, can't give that up. My next contracted project is converting my garage door to a side drive opener and the track will go to the ceiling. That will leave about 9' 6" to play with. Thats 114". With your E39 and Tesla you'd be hosed.
The cars I will be putting on the lift are significantly smaller than an E39. My 996 is 51.4", and my 986 is 50.8". My 944 is 50.2" and my 94 Miata is 48.2" high. I should have enough clearance for my stuff.
It's still going to be tight. You've got 98.4" worth of cars with your two lowest ones, which leaves you less than 16" of clearance. The lift has depth to it. Even if it's only 4" deep, you've only got 6" above each car for clearance to the lift and the ceiling (or door). Put the 996 in place of the Miata and now you've got about 4.5". Better put some limit switches on that thing or tape a rubber chicken to the roof or something, that's pretty close packaging.
I used the E39 and the Tesla because they're fairly typical sedans. Some cars are taller, some are shorter, but they're pretty unexceptional. All of your cars are pretty darn flat which helps. Maybe you should trade in the 996 for an Esprit :)
We haven't even got to the worst thing about lifts -- two post or four.
That's that as soon as you get one car to the point it can't be moved from the lift, another car will do something that leaves you needing the lift for it.
Where's that little girl saying "Why not both?"
In reply to Karacticus :
Oh, definitely both. Plus a scissor lift as those are better for some tasks than either post options.
Keith Tanner said:Their narrowest 1:1 scale two post is 125". So it's 2' wider, but of course that's just a single post that sticks out while a four post stakes out a full footprint. Mine's rated for 10,000 lbs so I can easily lift my 3/4 ton.
The problem with this analysis is that while it's "just a single post that sticks out", it's in exactly the wrong spot where the door of the car parked next to it needs to go.
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