2-Way Radio Comms - A "Must" for Racing?

I'm nearly finished with my first race build, a 24 Hours of Lemons entry.  We're registered for the first 2025 race at Barber Motorsports on Feb. 1-2.

At the moment, we're without a radio and contemplating whether to find the money to add it or just go old school and do without. We do have fully functional lights and turn signals for communications from driver to crew, and would use boards for crew to driver. Obviously that is a far cry from proper radio comms.

I see stuff like this on eBay:

Motorola CM300D UHF MHz 40 Watt Radio 403-470 Mhz AAM01QPH9JA1AN

available for $400 or so. Adding a PTT switch and putting earpieces and mics into helmets adds quite to the bill, as far as I can tell.

For those that have racing experience... Worth the cost for our first event?

I liked the one-way radio used at the Al Lane Racing School. 

If you stick with endurance racing you will 100% decide radios are the right call.

Usually people try to piece something together and have frustration.  They spend 200 to 400$ on their first crappy setup.

Then, they "upgrade" to somebody's used 10 year old setup that sorta kinda works well for like $500.

Then they buy the cheapest starter set of new purpose built radios for like $700.

Then, at about year 2 or 3, they drop money on what they should have bought in the first place (a nice radio setup that has common parts, cables, and compatibility) for $1k to $2k.  

I can save you over $1k right now.  Buy once, cry once.

Crappy old setups have $0 resale value.  A new modern system is worth every penny and you won't be disappointed constantly.

It's less than the cost of an entry fee for good radios and you will have them for years if you take care of them.

https://www.sampsonracing.com/TYT-MD-9600-Digital-20watt-Endurance-System-p/20w-digital-md9600.htm

Try to buy one more handheld radio as well.  It can act as a backup if one of the radios has an issue, or you can hand it to a crew member when you gotta drop a decent but want to stay in the loop of any communication.

I agree with wvumtnbkr, for endurance racing 2-way radios are a must.  I like Motorola and I bought them from RacingRadios instead of SRC, but same basic idea:

https://www.racingradios.com/products/long-track-mobile-cm300d

Some people like to put a handheld in the car in a "radio box".  The advantage to this is that if it fails you can swap it out for one of your crew handhelds (if you have more than one crew radio, at least).  Personally I would rather go with the unit that's designed to be mounted in the car on the theory that it's less likely to fail in the first place.  The mounted units also have a bit more transmit power.

Having two crew handhelds means you can have one in the pits and another with a spotter who's out there telling you what's happening in parts of the track you can't see.

We've been doing Lemons for 14 years somewhat successfully(3 class wins). We've never used radios and haven't really missed them. Here and there they would be nice, but it's just another headache. I drove another team's car for an afternoon with a headset and it didn't even work. Whoops.

We toyed with the idea of carrying a phone set to automatically answer a call so the pit can communicate to the driver, but we've never followed through with it.

I agree 100% with the comments of wvumtnbkr above.  I'm over 60 races into Lemons, and in fact will be at Barber.  If it's something you plan on doing more than once you will unquestionably want radios, and good ones.  However for your first event I would say it's not absolutely necessary.  Put a digital clock in the car, in clear view of the driver.  Make sure it's synchronized with your phone.  Set a schedule so the driver knows exactly when to come in.  A sign board is likely going to be difficult for the driver to see and read at speed (BTDT).  Put a small flag on a pole or something so it's easy for the driver to see.  That can be their cue to come in next lap, or whatever you decide it means.  

These are very crude ways to communicate, but in a pinch it's better than nothing.  Your first event is more about figuring things out and having fun, not being competitive.  My team has proper radios and we still keep a synchronized clock in the car.  The radio can come unplugged, die, or your earbuds go bad.  I at least have a backup plan to know when to pit.

For the clock, use a digital clock that is wired into the ignition or kill switch.  We used one that would reset to 0:00 and count up.  If the driver was doing a 2 hour stint, when the clock said 2:00, you pit.

Works awesome.

https://www.amazon.com/Digital-Electronic-Clock-Motorcycle-Panel/dp/B00O0Q9M54/ref=mp_s_a_1_16?crid=25HTSFOMZFWT4&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.c9eXNlazOY4d0JKD5gqZJAdLS5BBgwAWjjSyyvVl-8FL75XnuZnLQUlrPlezlQWKWGzlyMCcmqeEIjCJEobGr_Y-xDQS8tlkVbtw1cKp6HAppK8uCN59U0-teONhIle1J_u2-MLxX3-6qkA0pFHQee3xfIrsjog-Coa7v527YRc6LSfSs6WXdAP6Z1EeIlfjXi9_UQypDCzmfdwN9ZUlIw.jATTIEW-GF40Lqb7JNJQ0Mu76-VyyfmDzPcGqev8wXQ&dib_tag=se&keywords=LED+12+Volt+Digital+Display+Car+Time+Clock&qid=1737511657&sprefix=led+12+volt+digital+display+car+time+clock%2Caps%2C149&sr=8-16

We used this one and just disconnected the internal battery so it would reset everytime it got power on.

This makes it so the driver doesn't need to remember what time they got in the car 

wvumtnbkr said:

For the clock, use a digital clock that is wired into the ignition or kill switch.  We used one that would reset to 0:00 and count up.  If the driver was doing a 2 hour stint, when the clock said 2:00, you pit.

The danger in that is that if you spin the car and need to power cycle it to restart, you'll lose the timer.

We write the schedule on a small piece of paper and tape it on the dash.

codrus (Forum Supporter) said:

wvumtnbkr said:

For the clock, use a digital clock that is wired into the ignition or kill switch.  We used one that would reset to 0:00 and count up.  If the driver was doing a 2 hour stint, when the clock said 2:00, you pit.

The danger in that is that if you spin the car and need to power cycle it to restart, you'll lose the timer.

 

Yes, if you need to turn off the kill switch or ignition, that can be an issue.

My question is why would you need to kill ignition or kill switch to restart the car?  Never had that issue.

The only time this was an issue for us was during a red flag.  Which, a red flag basically restarted the stint anyway.

BTW, we also had a clock and went over the stint times with each driver.  However, the clock was the easiest for Champcar.  Champcar has a 2 hour max stint time.  If you miss it by 3 minutes, you get a penalty.  We wanted to maximize that.  This worked as a fail safe if the crew forgot to write down the exact minute that the car went on track for the new stint start.

So, basically radio was the #1 way to know when to pit.  The countdown clock was #2.  The drivers watch, or in car actual time clock was #3.

Maximizing stint time and capitalizing on yellow flags is key to winning these races.  It is usually won or lost on strategy.

I know that this isn't a concern for anyone's 1st race.  Just throwing some of my experiences out there if it helps.

One other radio specific thing that I and my team liked, but others weren't necessarily used to it...

We made our ptt a physical switch that you had to toggle on and off.  This made it so the driver could flip it on and talk without having a hand tied up holding a button.

There were a few times that the driver accidentally left it on and we had to waggle the radio at the driver (happened about 3 times in 10 years of racing).

wvumtnbkr said:

Yes, if you need to turn off the kill switch or ignition, that can be an issue.

My question is why would you need to kill ignition or kill switch to restart the car?  Never had that issue.

I have driven cars that needed an ECU reset if you stalled it when spinning.  Maybe it's just a BMW thing?  I dunno.

Yes, if you need to turn off the kill switch or ignition, that can be an issue.

My question is why would you need to kill ignition or kill switch to restart the car?  Never had that issue.

German cars require you to cycle the ignition switch to OFF before you can restart. It's pretty annoying but I've never cared to fix it until this year.

You'll want radios for endurance racing, but you'll also want a team plan for when they fail.  And they fail often.  Whether it is someone forgetting to plug in your head set on a driver change, someone kicking the radio and changing the channel, batteries going dead, etc.   They're nice to have, but make sure you have a fallback plan and a nice big pit board.  Two laps with headlights on if you intend to pit and comms are out, etc.  It also helps to have a general plan for where you want to pit, although Lemons doesn't have assigned stalls.  First lap out, it's nice to have someone stand near the stall or another designated place with your pit board so you have an idea of where to look for your team if they need to communicate with you.  If you do all that planning, then the radios will probably work fine.  

Rickjones said:

A bunch of nonsense, and then linked to a fashion site or something.

Bot.

So, what's the problem with buying a pair of $50 Motorola hand held radios and hooking one of them up to a remote switch and headset? Is it a range thing? Maybe you won't have comms on the back half of the track, but if all you need is to alert your buddy that it's time to come in, wouldn't signaling him with a burst while he's on your side of the track work? "Come in on the next lap or we'll steal your pizza".

Been doing lemons for years (been through the spectrum of no radio, CB, GMRS, phone group chat thing, ect). First race? For the whole team? The radio will be pretty low down on your list of things that are important. Just zip tie a big flavor flav cock to the dash, and tell your driver "See you in an hour!". If your car is still running after that first hour, they can pull into your paddock spot, check the car, give a sitrep to the next guy, make fueling plans (new driver in, does 5 laps, meets the team in the pits for refuel) "See you in an hour!". 

If your team is on their game, move up from "see you in an hour" to "fuel and driver swap, in the pits, at 2:15" (or some other specific time).

You can use this method and if your car keeps running, easily be somewhere mid pack. 

There isnt much you (should) need to communicate between team and driver. Need fuel or driver change? Schedule it. Car has a problem? Well, now your coming into the paddock anyway because you cant repair or check anything in the hot pits. And once your in the paddock, just call the others on the cell phone. 

You dont need a $400 motorola, if you dont know how to set it up and know basic radio theory its not going to be any better than a dollar store walkie talkie. 

After a couple of races under your belt, get a motorcycle CB radio kit. Fits helmets, PTT button built in, noise cancelation works pretty well, no GMRS license issues, good signal, cheap and easy to set up tune and maintain. 

TR7 said:

You dont need a $400 motorola, if you dont know how to set it up and know basic radio theory its not going to be any better than a dollar store walkie talkie. 

When you buy your radio gear from the racing-oriented shops above, they set it up for you.  They also handle getting an FCC license so that it's legal for you to use.

In reply to codrus (Forum Supporter) :

The original poster said;

I see stuff like this on eBay:

Motorola CM300D UHF MHz 40 Watt Radio 403-470 Mhz AAM01QPH9JA1AN

available for $400 or so. 

Thanks for all the replies. It sounds like it makes the most sense to do the first race without radios and defer until we can afford the purchase of a good system. I do realize that the good price I found for a used Motorola with 25W nominal power is the tip of the iceberg, but it made me briefly consider getting it for the first race. I'm no stranger to using two-way radios, but only hold a FCC Restricted Radiotelephone Operator which is meant for aviation use - no authority to transmit on GMRS channels such as some race teams use. Which brings up another question: do most people jump through the hoops to get properly licensed, or do they just take their chances? I presume the FCC is not sniffing around racetracks in hopes of doling out fines.

acnomad said:

 Which brings up another question: do most people jump through the hoops to get properly licensed, or do they just take their chances?

If you buy from a large vendor such as Racing Radios, they handle the licensing (in the business band, I believe).

As far as the FCC goes, my understanding is that they don't actively search for violators, but will investigate complaints.  So if you happen to be stomping on the frequency used by the local Sheriff's dept without realizing it then there may be consequences.

codrus (Forum Supporter) said:

acnomad said:

 Which brings up another question: do most people jump through the hoops to get properly licensed, or do they just take their chances?

If you buy from a large vendor such as Racing Radios, they handle the licensing (in the business band, I believe).

As far as the FCC goes, my understanding is that they don't actively search for violators, but will investigate complaints.  So if you happen to be stomping on the frequency used by the local Sheriff's dept without realizing it then there may be consequences.

 

Police and EMS have shown up to CMP during a couple of Lemons races because teams with Baofengs were stepping on local PD freqs.  Oddly enough, they knew exactly where to go.

I was crew chief for a T25 team a few years ago. I ran 2-4 cars during the course of the race with a bunch of drivers. We had a bunch of radio problems - some stints, it was pits-to-car only, others it was car-to-pits, some were without radios and sometimes we had proper two-way. The latter was by far the best. If a driver had an off out of sight, we knew about it right away. If the car was misbehaving, we could talk about it. Pit changes were easy to manage. We even had a spotter up in a tower calling out traffic.

You can race without radios, but you'll be at a disadvantage to those who have them.