If you bought the car for $1000, the max you can recoup for that item is $1000.
If you recoup the ENTIRE $1000, you can't trade parts from that parts deal.
The good news is that, yes, you can continue trading (parts in the budget) as long as you have not hit the $1005 total project recoup limit. You just can't trade them from that car.
Don't claim the last thing you sold.
Okay, so I bought my Challenge car with a blown engine for $250. I bought a rebuilt engine, tranny, drive shaft, steering column and other goodies for a total of $1048 from a friend's parts car. So when I pull the existing tranny and engine out of the $250 car, is $250 the max I can claim, or is it the $1005 since I spent $1048 stripping the parts car? Or do I have to actually buy the parts car to recoup the $1005?
Also, in the rules under Safety Inspection, Item 4f...
4. The following safety gear can be installed on the Challenge vehicle or used by the driver without counting toward the Challenge Budget: F) Rubber or steel brake lines, master cylinders, rotors, drums, brake cylinders, calipers and brake pad linings may be replaced with new stock pieces.
Does this include my clutch master cylinder? Stupid newbie question, I know. But keep in mind that I know absolutely nothing about cars other than driving them! :D
dollraves wrote: Okay, so I bought my Challenge car with a blown engine for $250. I bought a rebuilt engine, tranny, drive shaft, steering column and other goodies for a total of $1048 from a friend's parts car. So when I pull the existing tranny and engine out of the $250 car, is $250 the max I can claim, or is it the $1005 since I spent $1048 stripping the parts car? Or do I have to actually buy the parts car to recoup the $1005? Also, in the rules under Safety Inspection, Item 4f...4. The following safety gear can be installed on the Challenge vehicle or used by the driver without counting toward the Challenge Budget: F) Rubber or steel brake lines, master cylinders, rotors, drums, brake cylinders, calipers and brake pad linings may be replaced with new stock pieces.Does this include my clutch master cylinder? Stupid newbie question, I know. But keep in mind that I know absolutely nothing about cars other than driving them! :D
If you paid $250 for the car, you can only sell $250 off of it.
On your second question, I have to say no. Clutch parts don't count towards the safety allowances.
Good luck!
unevolved wrote: Yessir, saeintl.tamu.edu/grassroots/miata
Sorry if I'm highjacking the thread, but ...
That's a cool build on the Miata. But on the subject of your Honda, how did you guys figure out the fueling/spark with the turbo. I ask because I'm leading a project for my school (it's a middle school in South Korea) to turn a Daewoo Nubira into a racecar, and my budget is even tighter than yours. I was thinking a budget turbo would be about the only way I can get decent power out of it.
Thanks
We used Crome, which allowed us to effectively "rewrite" the fuel and ignition tables in our ECU. We're doing something very similar with our Nissan ECU, where we're replacing the 28-pin EPROM with an emulator for tuning, then writing that binary file to an EPROM.
I understand the origin but I don't think I like that (stock) brakes aren't included in the budget. New brakes are a huge possible advantage for the autoX.
Also, I think there is a possible loop hole in that you say "steel brake lines". I think you mean the hard lines, but some may read this as steel flexible lines which I am not aware of any car that uses those stock...
miatame wrote: I understand the origin but I don't think I like that (stock) brakes aren't included in the budget. New brakes are a huge possible advantage for the autoX.
That's not an advantage. Everyone can do it.
It's the foolish guy who shows up WITHOUT new brakes who should have known better.
The alternative was a bad idea. ("Sure, build a race car and go 130 mph on the drags, but watch your budget. Make sure you are pinching every penny possible, even if it means you can't stop").
miatame wrote: I understand the origin but I don't think I like that (stock) brakes aren't included in the budget. New brakes are a huge possible advantage for the autoX. Also, I think there is a possible loop hole in that you say "steel brake lines". I think you mean the hard lines, but some may read this as steel flexible lines which I am not aware of any car that uses those stock...
Brakes are largely a safety item to factor out the lowest common denominator. There are (completely hypothetical) competitors out there who will forsake their braking systems for that last pound of boost. You really don't want a car on track that's missing its rear brake pads with a socket keeping the piston from popping out (seen it) or a pair of vice grips keeping a torn brake line shut (heard about it).
Will it make a car faster? Probably. Will it make the event safer for everyone involved? Definitely.
Yeah I know. I just feel very weird installing brand new, non-custom parts on my Challenge Car!
So can we shake down this "stock" brake pad thing? Rotors are pretty much rotors when you're talking solid disks, but pads vary IMMENSELY! Presumably the rules don't mean you have to go down to the BMW dealer and get actual OEM pads right? So let's say I buy my pads at Autozone...what is considered stock?
Stock comparable- not upgraded performance pads.
Manufacturer can vary. Yes, perhaps there is a difference. Choose wisely.
I've got a couple of logistical questions for those who have been there:
I remember hearing somewhere that the track has fuel available... Does anyone know what types they have?
Is there air available for tires or should I get a small tank to bring. Will there be enough people with compressors for me to borrow a few psi?
Does anyone know of a decent car wash near the hotel or track? After driving all the way down there I imagine the car will be rather dirty for final decal application and the interior is sure to resemble an ashtray...
I am sure I will have some more soon, thanks in advance for any help
As I recall, there was a gas station very close to the track and a coin wash that was within ten minutes. I don't recall the track having any fancy fuel available, but then again I wasn't in the market so I didn't pay much attention.
Bryce
I've bought race fuel at the track the last three years....I don't remember what flavors they have, but I know there was 100 unleaded, 110 leaded, etc.
There's race fuel available at the track in both leaded and unleaded flavors. If you bring a bucket and some cleaning products and are very nice to the staff at the hotel they'll let you use their water and garden hose for free. 
So then...I've just spent a couple hours reading this thread (did an admirable job keeping it mostly on track, BTW!), and I find nothing about engine set-back as a percentage of wheelbase, or whether the cab of a pickup need be in the original position it was on the frame as it came off the boat from Japan. Just that the original body panels be retained, that there be functioning headlights and that it be 'road-WORTHY', if not 'road-LEGAL'. My proposed build (obviously not this year!) is to move the cab of a Plymouth Arrow pickup back on the frame, make room for an engine of some type rearward of the front suspension, keep the overall length of the pickup similar to stock, keep it recognizably a pickup, and attempt to get some sort of dynamic weight transfer that isn't WAY front heavy like most unloaded small pickups. And then find a drivetrain combo that will...do the job, as it were. "The job" being to autocross AND drag with equal aplomb. And maybe beat Andy at his own game.
And I'd like to use it as a DD, too. Hey, I can dream, right?? A guy's gotta have a goal, y'know?
Since the Arrow is RWD, why not leave the cab alone and drop the engine behind it in the bed? Drive the rear wheels from a short (or non-existent) driveshaft. Should leave you with darned near a 50/50 weight ratio, and all the mass dead centered and low in the vehicle.
I bought a new set of wheels 2 years ago. Since I’m having trouble finding a pair of cheap rims that will work with my setup can I use the used wheels I currently have at fair market value or would I have to include them at the price I paid for them new?
In reply to Pseudosport:
I'd say FMV. You already own them, so they weren't purchased specifically for this build.
What are the rules about exhaust? I’ve seen past challenge cars dump it out hood or fender. I’m building a twin turbo setup and there is not enough space to run the exhaust out under the vehicle. Can I just dump the exhaust out of the hood at an angle away from the driver and passenger compartment? NHRA rules just say exhaust must go out of vehicle body to rear of vehicle, away from driver and fuel tank.
I don't think there are any, considering ours last year didn't make it past the firewall, and Gutty's was about 6" off the turbo pointing out the hood and kind of to the rear.
unevolved wrote: I don't think there are any, considering ours last year didn't make it past the firewall, and Gutty's was about 6" off the turbo pointing out the hood and kind of to the rear.
the chicago police think gutty's exhaust is neat.
dead serious.
i love street driving it.
its actually (for a goof) going to be in the Hot Import Nights show at soldier field downtown, and i'm driving it there.
luke is also bringing a smoke machine, and a bikini model. its going to be hilarious.
i'll post pics. 2 weeks! haha
I was told that there would be a Crap Can class for the Chumpcars and Citrus cars. Is this to be classed in a separate class or are we in the non trophy class?? My cage is really welded in at about 16 points, the top is cut off, etc. Is there a tire rule for the Crap cans?? IE Chumpcar tires only? or can I use my ex spec M tires?? Thanks. Mike Ogren /Protech
That looks to be the case.
Event Page sez: We’ve got a new class for 2010. We now have a special class for crapcan racers. For the Challenge, we’re defining crapcans as anything that’s legal for either the 24 Hours of LeMons or ChumpCar World Series events. Budgeting, safety, and modification rules for the crapcan racer class will follow the LeMons and ChumpCar rule sets. Please note that there’s no mixing and matching of LeMons/ChumpCar rules and Challenge rules, so plan accordingly. If you have any questions, drop us a line.
unevolved wrote: That looks to be the case.Event Page sez: We’ve got a new class for 2010. We now have a special class for crapcan racers. For the Challenge, we’re defining crapcans as anything that’s legal for either the 24 Hours of LeMons or ChumpCar World Series events. Budgeting, safety, and modification rules for the crapcan racer class will follow the LeMons and ChumpCar rule sets. Please note that there’s no mixing and matching of LeMons/ChumpCar rules and Challenge rules, so plan accordingly. If you have any questions, drop us a line.
I hope this is true. I love it! :)
Question...
I bought a gallon of tremclad to paint my car. I used 1/2 the can, can I adjust the price accordingly? (by weight?)
Also I don't have a whole slew of receipts, a lot of what has gone into the car would be considered garage junk. Case in point my Sparco seat (sprint) was $199 new , but being a dumbass years ago I set fire to it with a welder. I listed the price of it as $60 because I considered that to be FMV , then added the $12 for fabric I used to recover the seat (my mommy)
Does it seem fair?
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