2011 Caravan, it's cranky the the morning, but fine all day.

Some mornings it just refuses to start.  Crank and crank and crank and nothing until like magic it fires up.  Once it starts you can shut it right back off and it will start and run normally the rest of the day.

The first issue was the standard fuel pump relay problem (which is integrated in the TIPM) and I opted to fix that with an external relay.   That problem caused the death of a battery(drained and frozen).   With a fresh battery and fuel pump relay fixed along with all grounds I can see checked the battery light is on and it sets code P0622.   That code has been set for months and arrived just after the new battery and relay fix.   Monitoring it from my torque app it is never outside any normal range (as far as I can tell) always rock solid between 13.8 and 14.1 volts with very little if any fluctuation.

It had also sometimes when it would not start set the code for cam sensors which would only log part of the time during cranking, but disappeared on any startup.  I replaced both of those and there was no change, but no haven't seen that code since.

Yesterday it didn't want to go so I cleared the code(s) and just like that it started on the next try.   That didn't work this morning.   Today the coincidence after multiple attempts was flooring and releasing the gas pedal with the key on and then the next attempt started it.   Again..  once running for the first time in the morning it runs and starts great the rest of the day.

So did I screw something up?   Is this a TIPM on its way to total failure?  

Temperature sensors ?

In reply to iceracer :

I thought about that but haven't had it trip any codes for that.   For a while we thought it was linked to dew/humidity/rain overnight because it isn't hard to start every single morning and that seemed to be related, but it has been hot and dry and still the problem sticks around. (and seems to be getting worse)

Technically, it sounds like it's not cranky in the morning lol.

Leaky injectors? What do the plugs look like?

In reply to EastCoastMojo :

When it does start there is no coughing, sputtering, or anything of the sort.    I honestly have no looked at the plugs..   but will do so today.   

It could be the external relay.  I have a 2011 Town and Country and am using a Vertical Visions bypass cable to solve the weird start/dead battery issues, but it still does the crank and no start sometimes.  My solution when it does that is to turn it on, don't start, and let the fuel pump run for a few seconds, then it usually fires.  I have this issue when temps are around freezing, not so much in the summer.  Good luck.   

The fuel pump can be heard running when the key is turned on without fail.   I dunno if maybe it shuts off during cranking and certainly open to the possibility I did something wrong on the relay install.

When I let the pump run, its like it "primes", and will usually start like normal, it won't start at all if I don't do that first, again my problem is in 30* weather.  The last time I was under the hood, I was a bit shocked at how hot it was after doing some errands.  Could be environmental, not wiring?  Just throwing stuff out. 

Lately mine has been doing "I won't start unless you shift from park to drive and back to park".

My 2012 T&C has been trouble free so far (purchased at 70k, now 115k), but this thread isn't giving me any warm fuzzy feelings.

Ok..  So this morning it was acting up again.    So I grabbed the first flammable spray I could find, Brake Clean, and gave it a squirt.   It coughed and sputtered trying to start a couple times before lighting off.   This was after multiple key turns in which the fuel pump could clearly be heard cycling.

Once running I expect as normal it will have no issues for the rest of the day.  

Going to change the spark plugs tonight, and fuel filter...   then go over the external fuel pump relay wiring.

Wish me luck..  

oh and 2002manic:   As a fanboy of the 2011 up pentastar powered, sto and go, swiss army knife, ultimate transportation and work machines..   Having to post these questions makes me sad.   

chrispy said:

 

Lately mine has been doing "I won't start unless you shift from park to drive and back to park".

Mine was doing that before I sold it to a GRMer. Maybe you can help him figure it out.

tuna55 said:

chrispy said:

 

Lately mine has been doing "I won't start unless you shift from park to drive and back to park".

Mine was doing that before I sold it to a GRMer. Maybe you can help him figure it out.

I had a 95 Jeep that did the same thing.   The trick wasn't working once so I climbed underneath and touched off the starter with a screwdriver.  It fired right up that way, with the Jeep in drive and me underneath it.  It drove right up onto my knee and hit the fence of the salvage yard, sitting there running.   I eventually had to call out for help because I couldn't but almost reach the toolbox in the backseat to cut the fuel pump wiring or something to shut it off so I could push it back.   A Hispanic guy who spoke no English answered my call by rushing up and trying to pick up the jeep which of course was no help at all.  Then some Willie Nelson looking guy waltzed up and asked what the problem might be.  He started to pick up on the back of the jeep before I asked if he could be so kind as to just back it up a few feet.    I had an imprint from the gravel, but only my pride was damaged.

The moral of the story is don't do that, it hurts.  

I think this problem has been narrowed down to the check valve on the fuel pump.   Multiple cycles of the pump with only attempts to start it every 10-12 cycles and it fires up and runs/behaves perfectly the rest of the day.

I cannot find an easy port to check fuel pressure, but it is a returnless system and popping the line off at the rail it will flow fuel on a key cycle just fine, but I noticed when pulling the line a couple times after attempts to start it there was no pressure in the system, which I think there should have been as the pump can be heard cycling with the Key.

I hate just throwing parts at things, and am still inclined to believe it could be something with the TIPM...  but plan on doing the pump tonight or tomorrow...