Tomorrow
Tomorrow
There's a deadline, but it's typically extended. Probably a good idea to send us (per@grassroots is best...) an email to let us know your intentions.
If we cut off the entries tomorrow, it would be a somewhat disappointing field. 
Procrastination is an unwritten rule of the Challenge. 
My entry is in the mail.
Yikes. We STILL don't even have our car yet. Been delayed a month by work on our %#@* tow-vehicle. At this rate, we should have our E36 M3 together in time to register for 2012.
(And no, we're not building an M3) 
Hi Guys,
Hoping for some rules clarifications please...
1> Fluids. I do not see fluids listed as exempt from budget, though I've read posts stating that they are. I'm referring to engine, trans, and diff oil. And if oil is indeed exempt, what about the filter? I'm guessing this stuff is not exempt, and that's ok. But this stuff does hit the budget hard. I'm shooting for the sub $1k group, so $50 is a big deal.
2> If oil counts, what about gas? If gas counts, do I have to factor in fuel used while tuning? I installed a new fuel tank, so I know exactly how much fuel's been consumed.
3> Stuff I bought but didn't use. For instance, I bought a used battery. It didn't hold a charge and is not usable. It's not in the car, and I had to get another one. Do I have to count the cost of the 1st (dead) battery, or can I not include the cost because I didn't use it?
4> Misc hardware. Like washers, bolts, clamps, zip ties. I didn't buy any of that stuff, just used random stuff out of the hardware bucket. I'm sure everyone on here has a similar bucket. I was just going to add a $10 line item on the budget to cover. Fair?
Sorry to ask so much.
In reply to Ben:
I think Per needs to answer on the fluids thing because I'm not sure as well. I didn't count it on my last build but I may be in the wrong. As far as your other questions...
Gas does not count towards your budget. There will be race fuel available at the event if you need it.
If you didn't use it on the car then it doesn't hit the budget. I collected any parts I could for my build and then used what I needed. I can't pass up a deal.
Most of us do as you suggested and put $10 in the budget for the hardware even though most of it came off of the car to begin with.
Hope this helps. See you there.
I don't count fluids. Generally speaking, the car came with fluids, I removed them and replaced them with something of an equivalent FMV. I would suggest, however, if you use some fancy-schmancy gobblety goop that gives a performance advantage, you should include something in the budget.
The not-so-dangerous One covered the rest. 
Thanks guys, 2-4 are squared. I'll wait for Per's judgement on #1.
The car I got hadn't been run in nearly a decade. I didn't want to run it on the old fluids. I've already done the engine oil and diff oil. Radiator was flushed with hose water, and I haven't done the gear box oil yet, pending the ruling. I want to change it, but that stuff is expensive in relation to the budget.
I've actually sold more than $1000 worth of parts off the car, which had an original purchase price of $1000. Too bad I can't claim the deductions over $1k. If I could, my listed build cost would be close to $0. Yes, I did take my significant other out to dinner. And yes, I am having fun with the build, even though it feels like a lot of work.
Thank you.
Per Schroeder wrote: Yea, basic consummables are free. oil, brake fluid, etc. I don't even think I made a distinction for synthetic.
I take it to mean all fluids, plugs, wires, and filters are free. That frees up $100 easily. :)
I don't think it said that.
I know Per used the word "consumables", but that thread was specifically a discussion of fluids. If you want free filters, plug wires, plugs, etc. that would be a different question.
Very grey.
It seems to me that stock spark plugs, filters, and fluids would be free since stock replacement brake parts are. That seems to cover all standard maintenance items. I could be wrong though
Ben wrote: Thank you.Per Schroeder wrote: Yea, basic consummables are free. oil, brake fluid, etc. I don't even think I made a distinction for synthetic.I take it to mean all fluids, plugs, wires, and filters are free. That frees up $100 easily. :)
Woah...how do you get from oil and brake fluid to plugs, wires, and filters???
This isn't calculus. In this Challenge event engine oil, brake fluid, diff fluid, transmission fluid, or coolant is not going to make a difference (even synthetics) either way. None of those is going to make the car run poorly short term (as long as the levels are correct). Bad plugs and wires will certainly make a difference.
My E30 had a cleanable K&N so we hosed it down, and we didn't run a filter in the Jeep...so I can't speak on those but if you just bang the crud out of a paper filter you'll be fine...if you replace it with a performance filter you should include the cost.
Don't make it hard, its the Challenge.
PhilStubbs wrote: It seems to me that stock spark plugs, filters, and fluids would be free since stock replacement brake parts are. That seems to cover all standard maintenance items. I could be wrong though
Brakes are a safety item. That's the difference.
Sorry- I'm not seeing anything "grey" about the word "fluids" or the word "brakes".
Don't add 1+1 and get 4.
AFAIK, the fluids guideline has been that way since the start.
The brake parts was a specific change introduced a couple of years ago, and I was one of the ones who pushed for it. The intent was to prevent people from getting in a car at speeds in excess of 100mph with no brakes just to save a few dollars on brake pads. OEM stuff- pretty simple.
Unfortunately, ever since then people have been trying to open it into a loophole big enough to drive a truck through.
I was warned about that slippery slope...
Very slippery slope, no argument from me in that regard.
I disagree that new fluids are not performance enhancing. Sorry but I bet that there would be a difference on the dyno between removing the decade old fluids in the car and installing new stuff. Oils can make more or less power. Seen it happen. I work at a shop with a dyno even. ;) If you don't buy that argument, then I argue that a drivetrain that doesn't go BOOM will be faster than one that does, all day long. :)
The "leap" from fluids to other items was in the word "consumables." He didn't' say fluids, he said consumables. Filters, plugs, and wires are consumables--just like oil. And if oil is free, why isn't the oil filter? Free oil also isn't listed anywhere in the rules is it? You guys must have been doing this for years, and that's great, but this is my first dance. How am I supposed to know unwritten rules?
I'll play ball either way. My build docs will be 1000% straight up and solid either way, but I do want to stay on some what of a level field. If no one else claims this stuff, then fine, I shouldn't have to either. If everyone claims, then great I'll claim it too. But every $50 counts when you're on such a shoestring budget. The more I can budget, the faster I can go.
OK, it's your first dance. Stop reading into things.
Nobody said oil can't enhance performance. Per said fluids don't count.
Yes he said consumables, but the entire rest of the thread was about fluids.
Tires are consumable too, but you ABSOLUTELY MUST include them in your budget. Windshield wipers, serpentine belts, timing belts, light bulbs, ball joints are all consumable. The man said fluids.
Part of the art of doing the Challenge is reading the rules pretty literally and carefully. What they DON'T say is just as important as what they DO say.
Stretching the rules is a greatly honored and respected art. Arguing about them is not.
Oh, BTW- welcome aboard! It's a great dance, and I know you are going to enjoy it. 
The most elite class of the Challenge faithful are those that have spawned a rule re-write due to their unique interpretation of it! 
Ben wrote: I disagree that new fluids are not performance enhancing. Sorry but I bet that there would be a difference on the dyno between removing the decade old fluids in the car and installing new stuff. Oils can make more or less power. Seen it happen. I work at a shop with a dyno even.
From this I can tell you've never been to the Challenge, and that's cool. We all had our first time. FYI this isn't like a highly sanctioned NASA event. This is for fun and bragging rights, not trophies.
A couple of horsepower isn't going to be the difference from you winning or losing at the Challenge, that I promise you. You are right, a race grade synthetic is going to protect better and free up a hp or two on certain engines. I use that stuff on my M3...but I get the cheap stuff for my Challenge cars. The E30 and the Jeep are both on stock-ish 250k+ mile engines...a fancy oil isn't going to show up anywhere. The Jeep was turboed so we ran a cheap Ford Motorcraft Synthetic blend that you can get at Walmart for about $15 for 5 qts.
Save yourself some money and stick with a stock-ish oil (sythetic or otherwise) and you'll save your engine and your wallet without cheating the rules.
Quick budget question with regard to using the same vehicle multiple years. I know somewhere in the rules there is the provision for removing old tires (and taking them out of the budget) and putting new ones on (and putting them in the budget). Does this work for pretty much any part I can take off the car that I purchased individually?
Example: I use one carb this year, but switch to a cheaper one next year. Can I just take the old carb out of the budget, or do I need to sell it in order to attempt to recoup budget money?
eastsidemav wrote: Quick budget question with regard to using the same vehicle multiple years. I know somewhere in the rules there is the provision for removing old tires (and taking them out of the budget) and putting new ones on (and putting them in the budget). Does this work for pretty much any part I can take off the car that I purchased individually?
yes, that's exactly how it works. the key is that it was purchased individually, not part of the car as you originally received it.
Question for Per.Car Domain.com is not a sponsor this year? It was on all the original listing but now I see CRC instead.
Not really a rule question, but can banquet attendees be added last min or do they need to be paid at the time of registration? My wife wants to go and possible another friend
I have paid for additional banquet attendees later, but not last minute. They need a head count for the caterers.
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