DeadSkunk wrote: How is the road course for spectating? Half the fun is watching everyone else run.
It's a long walk to the other side of the course- but I seem to recall a few sprinkled around the track. Most people watched from the paddock.
(to be honest, I didn't watch too much- was too concerened about other things)
Joe Gearin wrote: We ran the road course back in 2002- 2004 IIRC. There were a few wickedly fast cars at those events (Mongrel's Monster Miata comes to mind) Our current crop of Challenge cars shouldn't pose a problem. With a bit of testing and course modifications we can easily control speeds. The question is which would you guys prefer---- a traditional autocross, or a mini- road course? Both are fun, just different strokes......
not 2002- that was in a parking lot back when the even was in a different town. Which I can't even recall.
the move in 2003 to Gainseville seems to be one of the best things that's ever happened to the challenge. So only the 2003 and 2004 autocross was on the road course. Very different courses, too- looking at the picture, 2003 started on the right side, 2004 started on the left side of the picture.
alfadriver wrote: (to be honest, I didn't watch too much- was too concerened about other things)
like learning how to modulate four-wheel drums on a mid-engined V8 corvair? 
regarding SVreX's concern over bigger faster cars being built to suit the road course, it was an alfa spider that won the autocross in '04.
I like the road course because it is easy for a non-autocrosser to understand. The parking lot style autocross looks like a random sea of cones to me. :(
I vote for road course. I also vote to add it as a 4th event. 1) autocross 2) drag 3) mini roadcourse 4) concourse
Would you be combining it with an autocross day so we could do fun runs or runs with other cars?
AngryCorvair wrote: regarding SVreX's concern over bigger faster cars being built to suit the road course, it was an alfa spider that won the autocross in '04.
I wasn't really concerned, and I didn't say bigger cars would win.
I just said the road course would attract a fundamentally different editorial content.
(Which honestly, I prefer).
The last few years have shown a shift from radical builds and monstrous engines being stuffed into little cars, to competent autocrossers, with large amounts of seat time prior to the event.
You can win the overall without a top 10 on the dragstrip. You can't win it without a top 5 on the autocross (my unofficial observation- I'm sure someone will prove me wrong).
Therefore, I vote road course. I prefer to drive it, and I think it will encourage more diversity in the builds.
MrJoshua wrote: I like the road course because it is easy for a non-autocrosser to understand. The parking lot style autocross looks like a random sea of cones to me. :(
I bet it will still be an autocross vs. a road course. They coned the track before, and that what was suggested would happen again.
Doesn't look as much as a sea of cones, since it's more spread out, that's true.
alfadriver wrote: not 2002- that was in a parking lot back when the even was in a different town. Which I can't even recall.
Ouch, that kind of hurts. That was Palm Bay, sort of my home course, or at least the site closest to my house. Unfortunately, we haven't been allowed to use that site for quite some time.
Re: the road course, unless you are getting a real deal on the price, I'd skip it. When used by my old club, we were mandated to have EMS on site. Combined with facility rental it made for a $1,250 or so per diem a number of years ago. The road course is fun as an autox, but not THAT fun.
SVreX wrote: Didn't a certain Pennsylvanian hit triple digits in $2004 in a raggeddy beast affectionately known as "The Tetanus Express"
That one was interesting to watch on the road course. It would just about come to a dead stop on the 90 degree turns, then nearly pull a wheelstand accelerating out of the corners!
SVreX wrote:AngryCorvair wrote: regarding SVreX's concern over bigger faster cars being built to suit the road course, it was an alfa spider that won the autocross in '04.The last few years have shown a shift from radical builds and monstrous engines being stuffed into little cars, to competent autocrossers, with large amounts of seat time prior to the event.
That was about the approach I'd taken with the Probe - I'd spent the lion's share of the prep time on practicing autocrossing it and finding out what tire pressure combinations and the like got it to behave its best. And it worked on the road course. It beat quite a few monster builds on the mini road course, and would have placed considerably higher with the dynamic scoring rules now in place than it did with separate drag and concourse scores. I think the "add the drag and autocross times together" may be more responsible for that shift.
In reply to MadScientistMatt:
That's a good point.
In reply to conesare2seconds: I think EMS is a requirement even if it's in the parking lot (pretty sure they were there last year)
In reply to alfadriver:
The design in the Vette video is the one we used at the road course on a local track day uses cones and was perfectly manageable for my feeble brain. I tried my first autocross run ever at the course at the challenge once and got horribly lost. :(
With another event added, I think the attrition will be significantly higher.
Typically, when the road course is used for autocross events, they insert slaloms or other "autocross" features before the ends of the straights. This does two things: 1) Allows the course to retain more autocross character, where car attributes like steering precision and transitional handling are valued, and 2) Helps to keep cars from going off into the dirt at high speed. (Doesn't prevent it, but it does get most cars slowed up before the most hazardous turns.)
As I see it, the autocross courses we have been using in the parking lot have been well designed, and similar in overall character to what we would expect on the "road course". I do think the surface of the road course is in better shape, free of oil spots and harsh bumps, plus the skid pad portion is good for evaluating steady-state cornering. Down sides of running the road course are that there is no paved pit and paddock area, and it is too far away from the main track to stake out a paddock spot and use it all weekend.
Highest "G" contest?
jstein77 wrote:alfadriver wrote: not 2002- that was in a parking lot back when the even was in a different town. Which I can't even recall.Ouch, that kind of hurts. That was Palm Bay, sort of my home course, or at least the site closest to my house. Unfortunately, we haven't been allowed to use that site for quite some time.
It did rain the entire autocross day. Kinda hard to enjoy the surroundings when you are cold and wet. My car didn't have a top, afterall....
When the drag race was rained out, our team headed over to Cape Canaveral to see the museum. That was pretty cool.
The road course really is a big bonus for those of us driving 15+ hrs to get to the event. I understand the logistics of it make it more difficult for the event and assuming cost more money? It was such a cool adventure in 2004 to drive back into the woods and find the road course. The cones were used to slow it down, but it was still a blast. Cool factor and better overall bang for the buck IMHO.
alfadriver wrote:jstein77 wrote:It did rain the entire autocross day. Kinda hard to enjoy the surroundings when you are cold and wet. My car didn't have a top, afterall.... When the drag race was rained out, our team headed over to Cape Canaveral to see the museum. That was pretty cool.alfadriver wrote: not 2002- that was in a parking lot back when the even was in a different town. Which I can't even recall.Ouch, that kind of hurts. That was Palm Bay, sort of my home course, or at least the site closest to my house. Unfortunately, we haven't been allowed to use that site for quite some time.
Yes, and that was the last time I was one of the pro drivers. (Boy, I'd love to do that again.) I did a couple of warmup runs in the Escort GT I owned at the time and ended up with the third fastest time of the entire day.
I've run there and it is fun. It's Easy to put in cones to make it as tight as you want. On the negative side it is pretty far from the parking lot and toilets, so walking over or going back to the spot for repairs, etc. could be a hassle. (I'm looking at you College teams. Kidding :)
If it cost more, then No.
Which ever is fine with me.
2002-2004 were the three years my brother and I participated (GTI, 242, Eclipse). The rain at Palm Bay was miserable. Fish Hut banquet was cool. The road course was fun but it was hard to be near your car and see anything happening on course.
I'm fine on either side, though the idea of having more room on the road course sounds like a ton of fun.
I vote for road course. Unless the costs don't outweigh the fun benefits.
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