$2014 Challenge

Yes, I started my own $2014 Challenge thread. I got special permission.

We're going through the entire rulebook line by line and plan on sharing it at the $2013 Challenge. We'll be talking to some of our regular competitors, too, as we value your input. If you guys don't come, well, then it's not much of an event.

I just wanted to put this out there so it's not missed.

Thanks.

Worst build thread EVER.

I know. I should post a pic of me at my computer. Trust me, it's not that awesome.

I'm OK with that if you're working in the office. If you're at home, it's a game of Russian Roulette I'm unwilling to play.

Whether at the office or telecommuting, it's pretty much the same thing: cargo shorts, black T-shirt, Old Skool Vans.

David S. Wallens wrote: We're going through the entire rulebook line by line and plan on sharing it at the $2013 Challenge. We'll be talking to some of our regular competitors, too, as we value your input. If you guys don't come, well, then it's not much of an event.

Thanks. I'm glad you guys are thinking about this.

You know that I have not competed (newsflash: it is hard to build a car on that budget. I've tried) but I've been to the last few years' events, and always have a blast.

Darn, competed in 5 challenges, and spectated another one or two, but I likely won't be down there this year. Of course, I'm not sure what I could offer in terms of suggestions, as a perpetual mid-pack or backmarker competitor.

eastsidemav wrote: Darn, competed in 5 challenges, and spectated another one or two, but I likely won't be down there this year. Of course, I'm not sure what I could offer in terms of suggestions, as a perpetual mid-pack or backmarker competitor.

Know what, the fact that you came to seven of our events means something. Here's a question: Why did you keep coming back?

I've been trying to participate in the Challenge since 2005.

If it wasn't for Curmudgeon's Trazada/Abomination, I would have only been reading about it rather than trying to participate. We talked at great lengths and I "convinced" myself to form a small team to get it done . . . This seems like something I could realistically get done.

Unfortunately, friends of mine couldn't come to an agreement on what to build, how to build, trying to build a car without any hands on support, didn't want to offer $$$$ . . . or flat out wanted to cheat. Some friends, huh . . .

Anyway . . . The pics, the editoral, the [appearance] camaraderie, etc . . . If the Challenge is as good as the forum participants are . . . I wanna be there. Beside, sharing a beer or 12 with Poopshovel and AussieSMG would be right up my alley!!

You know, you can always come to watch and hang out.

I just want to know when a road course lap is going to be added to the competition.

t25torx wrote: I just want to know when a road course lap is going to be added to the competition.

That's called "One Lap of America Crapcan Class."

Swank Force One wrote:

t25torx wrote: I just want to know when a road course lap is going to be added to the competition.

That's called "One Lap of America Crapcan Class."

Don't you mean UTCC?

David S. Wallens wrote: You know, you can always come to watch and hang out.

David S. Wallens wrote:

eastsidemav wrote: Darn, competed in 5 challenges, and spectated another one or two, but I likely won't be down there this year. Of course, I'm not sure what I could offer in terms of suggestions, as a perpetual mid-pack or backmarker competitor.

Know what, the fact that you came to seven of our events means something. Here's a question: Why did you keep coming back?

I have NEVER competed....not for lack of trying, just lack of aptitude in fabrication. (My datsun replica WILL be finished, and will appear at a challenge, but it won't be under budget.) Never the less, I'll offer an opinion: I come to see the amazing cars.

Mostly, that means I come to see fabrication (n600, warrburg, ScAries, etc.) but there are cars I car about, too. I wanted to see this face to face, just so I could find out how good a rattlecan paint job could look in person: Answer: amazing.

The stuff that is so cool it makes my jaw drop is what inspires me to pick up a wrench, and also to open the magazine

Is there a Crapcan Class at UTCC?

David S. Wallens wrote: You know, you can always come to watch and hang out.

I may come down this year. Previous years, the Challenge and Petite were either the same weekend or close. Since I've sworn off Petit (thanks to poor signage and law enforcement picking and choosing which law to enforce on which day), I have room to hang out . . . AussieSMG offered a non-official membership to his team

If something doesn't keep me away, I'll be down this year.

David S. Wallens wrote:

eastsidemav wrote: Darn, competed in 5 challenges, and spectated another one or two, but I likely won't be down there this year. Of course, I'm not sure what I could offer in terms of suggestions, as a perpetual mid-pack or backmarker competitor.

Know what, the fact that you came to seven of our events means something. Here's a question: Why did you keep coming back?

David, I hope you have time for a long-winded answer. In case you don't, here's the cliff's notes version: Different things brought me back each year, but one thing that stayed the same was getting to see the people and the cars, but that doesn't work to attract new racers, if they haven't shown up to spectate already.

The long version:

For the 2005 Challenge, I mentioned it to a few friends, and in no time, we had a team of three people. Judging by prior events I had read about, I figured we could put together a halfway competitive car. We burned a ton of time building a crappy CRX into a faster crappy CRX. It was primer black, with an early Integra swap, nitrous, and most of the interior still intact. Only two of us were able to make the trip, but immediately, we were in car geek heaven when we pulled into the parking lot. I'm somewhat introverted, but it was a lot easier to meet people when you're curious about their cars, and they're happy to regale you with stories of how they put everything together. We surprised ourselves, had no mechanical problems, ran a 15.0 in the drags, and ended up in the top half of the field.

2006, and I got overconfident. My friend (wae) who had made the trip the prior year, was building his own car, and I should have just helped him, but instead had the crazy idea of bringing a rat rod to the event. I even procured a car from another challenger, and started working, but was injured in an unrelated event, and time became critical. It didn't help that we had discovered rallycross, and were using the prior year's challenge car to compete with. Any time it had problems, it filled one bay of my garage, while the challenger sat in the other bay. Time got short, and grasping at straws, I picked up a poorly modded Chevy Corsica (yeah, that was me) as a backup plan. I finished second to last, mainly due to a horrid, but well deserved, concours score, and wae's car had tons of teething issues. Had I stuck to helping him, maybe we would have brought one well-sorted car instead. We had a pretty bad time of it during the competition, but hanging out in the hotel lot with everyone else was still pretty fun.

2007 (or 2008, can't remember), my dad got bit by the bug. He bought a former challenge car, and had me pick it up, and work on sorting it, with him helping out in my garage. A lot of shuffling had to be done with other projects, but we got it to Florida, and did halfway decent. We both had a ton of fun talking to other challengers and hanging out in the hotel and the parking lot. Starting to notice a theme here?

Life got busy, and racing was on the backburner, but after going to spectate in 2008 or 2009, decided I needed to build a competitive car, something that could run in the top ten. Ended up with a third-gen Firebird. At time, I had started rallycrossing again, so space and time were at a premium. The car also fought me every step of the way. About a month before the 2010 Challenge, I decided there was no way the car would be ready, so pulled the plug, and went to spectate again. Returned home invigorated, and got back to work on the car again, which still fought me every step of the way.

This is where things get a little hard for me. A little after the challenge, I found out my dad had a terminal illness. Spent a lot of time traveling to be with him during the next year, but he enjoyed the event so much, I kept at the car, hoping to be able to go there with him in 2011. The event rolls around, and the car is untested, and nowhere near where I want it to be, but under the circumstances, I went. I couldn't even tell you what position I finished in (pretty far back), but dad made it there in time to see the car run in the autocross, and was able to spend some time in the banquet room back at the host hotel. He came out for the drags, but of course they got rained out that year. Despite how little he got to do, he had a great time there. A month later he passed away. I could barely look at the car, and sold it, but was very happy my dad had been able to make one last Challenge.

2012, there was no way I was building another car. I had finally come to the realization I would need to focus all of my car geek powers on a challenge car if I intended to place well. I went and built a dedicated rallycrosser instead. However, wae had sorted his 2006 car quite well, and was cleaning it up for the event, and another friend, Ashykun decided he wanted to do a car after joining us in 2011. I helped out with both cars before and during the event. It was again wonderful to just hang out with a bunch of car guys both at the hotel, and at the track.

So now, with none of my close friends running this year, I'm somewhat disinclined to make the drive, but might surprise myself. I know I won't be likely to build a car under anything resembling the current ruleset. I've done the backmarker thing enough times, and refuse to show up without a good car.

That tells you what brought me back, but there's also the issue of getting new people to show up. In a way, the Challenge is a victim of its own success. If I hadn't heard about it as early as I did, I might have looked at a results issue, realized there was no way I could build a car that nice for under $20XX, and said never mind. Please note, Id've believed other people could build stuff like that, but I wouldn't have had the time, support group, and garage space to do well, and still have other interests. Other newbies might have that same attitude, though.

While you review the rules, it may not be a bad idea to have a "street" or "enthusiast" class, composed of streetable, registered cars, and a "race" class for everything else. Force everyone to run together, and accept that the race cars will sweep the overall event. Maybe the enthusiast/street cars will have an added requirement of a convoy drive, so they have to be registered, and run on something other than near slick tires. I'd also recommend full interiors, limited mods (maybe no engine swaps), working heaters, radios, etc. Basically something that could theoretically be driven to the challenge in relative comfort, without making the driver lose their mind (or hearing). New competitors might try to do well in a class like that, get hooked, and start prepping for the all-out "race" class. If the budget portion of the rules are kept the same between classes, someone determined to be breaking street rules could just be bumped to the race class and still compete for trophies.

Indirectly, I have the challenge to thank for getting me into rallycross, which is partially why I can't be competitive at the challenge. I accept that. Its been a fun run, and I hope to spectate or crew on other people's cars in the future, but a new build is unlikely for me. I hope to see you all again in Gainesville, even if it probably won't be this year.

By the way, just to clear up some confusion, we're talking about unveiling a rules package for $2014 and beyond. I want something stable and resistant to rules creep.

I'm also not saying that we're completely throwing away the current rules. Mainly, I want to take a good look at where we've been, where we're at, and where we're going.

Thanks again for all of the input.

There should be a rule that everyone needs to bring a small bucket of smack. It makes for smiles, laughs, and things more interesting.

eastsidemav wrote: In a way, the Challenge is a victim of its own success. If I hadn't heard about it as early as I did, I might have looked at a results issue, realized there was no way I could build a car that nice for under $20XX, and said never mind. Please note, Id've believed other people could build stuff like that, but I wouldn't have had the time, support group, and garage space to do well, and still have other interests. Other newbies might have that same attitude, though.

Very good point. I've been thinking that, too. The level of skill of the regular competitor has gotten to the point that the casual/newb won't be able to compete. I've been thinking that a novice/training wheels class might help....Maybe we could allow a higher budget in that class ("I did this much myself, but had to pay someone to do...."), but apply a PAX-like formula to their results so as to handicap/penalize the people who just throw money at the problem.

You know, we did offer a Caveman class for a little while: no power tools, no fab, etc. I think we had like 2 or 3 people enter it. People talked about it, but few actually took us up on it. So we dropped it.

By the way, I found the rules from the original $1500 Challenge from 1999: 245 words total.

You are probably going to laugh, but is there any chance at doing this at different locations?

You might not have noticed, but Florida is kind of stuck way off in a corner.

For a good funk of the country it could cost more to travel to the challenge the. Build the challenge car.

If you wan new blood/ideas/content moving it around would help

We've thought about moving the event, but for the foreseeable future the event is staying near home. From a logistics/manpower standpoint, it's really our only choice.

A "Rookie" class sounds interesting

By the way, the current rules check in at 2732 words.