So my wife's Escape has taken to stalling occasionally. It seems to only do it after the engine is warm and then after sitting 15-20 minutes, we restart it and a minute or two later, it will die. Then turn it back on and it goes fine. The check engine light doesn't comes on. I took to the shop and they couldn't reproduce it. Anyone got any ideas?
Did the shop check for codes? Hoping there's something stored but not ready to throw a CEL yet...
Beyond that, sounds like one of those things I should know the answer to, like failing FPR or check valve or something like that having to do with the fuel in the rail being warm...
Seem to be the wrong season to get any significant fuel boiling in the rail. Possible, but seems very unlikely to me.
Can you repeat it? And if you can, any chance you can record all of the PIDs over the OBD plug? That would bring in a lot of good data to debug it.
What engine?
I'm guessing either an air leak or the throttle body though.
Saron81 said:What engine?
I'm guessing either an air leak or the throttle body though.
1.6 ecoboost.
alfadriver said:Seem to be the wrong season to get any significant fuel boiling in the rail. Possible, but seems very unlikely to me.
Can you repeat it? And if you can, any chance you can record all of the PIDs over the OBD plug? That would bring in a lot of good data to debug it.
Sometimes. Not always. How do I record the PIDs? I am so not used to a car this new. If the fuel was boiling surely it would do other then that very specific time I would think.
Did some hunting and saw either the throttle body or fuel pressure regulators being suggested as the issue.
Ransom said:Did the shop check for codes? Hoping there's something stored but not ready to throw a CEL yet...
Yeah they checked and found nothing...
93EXCivic said:alfadriver said:Seem to be the wrong season to get any significant fuel boiling in the rail. Possible, but seems very unlikely to me.
Can you repeat it? And if you can, any chance you can record all of the PIDs over the OBD plug? That would bring in a lot of good data to debug it.
Sometimes. Not always. How do I record the PIDs? I am so not used to a car this new. If the fuel was boiling surely it would do other then that very specific time I would think.
Did some hunting and saw either the throttle body or fuel pressure regulators being suggested as the issue.
Get an OBDII recorder, plug it in, and start recording. I'm not sure which is a good or even a best one, as the ones I have are not ones this board would be able to get. There are threads for those recorders (I just tried to search it, but the google search engine brings up a lof of REALLY old threads.)
Also thinking about it more- the idea of fuel vaporization makes even less sense- DI is pretty darned robust to that.
If you could record the information, it would point to what is the source- the MAP going really high would suggest the throttle is closing, the a/f going really lean would tell you there's a fuel delivery problem. Going rich would tell me that the pressure sensor is bogus.
And I'm not sure if fuel pressure is one of the things recorded- but the only one that could fail like that is in the fuel tank- the one on the engine is working outside of this error, and delivering the needed 500-2000psi of fuel.
So I got a OBD reader and Dashcommand. When it stalled out the fuel pressure, dropped to 100psi.
How many miles? Dirty injectors?
My Saab 900 used to stall when the oil fill cap was not hooked on both clips, interfered with designed PCV. (crankcase vent). Also farted when gas cap was not tight. Sealed system...
YMMV.
93EXCivic said:So I got a OBD reader and Dashcommand. When it stalled out the fuel pressure, dropped to 100psi.
I assume that prior to that it was in the 500-1000 or more range? That would suggest that the high pressure pump is failing.
alfadriver said:93EXCivic said:So I got a OBD reader and Dashcommand. When it stalled out the fuel pressure, dropped to 100psi.
I assume that prior to that it was in the 500-1000 or more range? That would suggest that the high pressure pump is failing.
Yeah it has been around 700-800 kind of at idle. Maxing a bit over 2000psi. I just noticed I can log data with Dashcommand so I going to try to get a log of it doing it.
In reply to 93EXCivic :
The cheaper first step is to replace the in-tank pump. But those don't normally fail, and if they did, your main fuel pressure would also struggle. For sure, though, it's cheaper to replace than than the engine mounted high pressure pump...
With the original symptoms, though that doesn't get that hot, so it would not change much driving around. The HPFP does, though...
Most likely needs a fuel pressure sensor. There are 2. A high pressure sensor on the rail, and a low pressure sensor on the line. Pump failure is way more rare. Those will usually set codes though.
Saron81 said:Most likely needs a fuel pressure sensor. There are 2. A high pressure sensor on the rail, and a low pressure sensor on the line. Pump failure is way more rare. Those will usually set codes though.
this can be seen in the data as well- the high pressure sensor is light years more important, as it's used 100% of the time injecting fuel.
But look for two things in the data- sudden drop out and recovery in the fuel, and at the same time, the a/f will go very rich very quickly. If both are happening, then the sensor is a good thing to change.
Saron81 said:Most likely needs a fuel pressure sensor. There are 2. A high pressure sensor on the rail, and a low pressure sensor on the line. Pump failure is way more rare. Those will usually set codes though.
After talking to some Ford techs they thought the same in particular the high pressure sensor on the rail. But replaced and it is still stalling.
alfadriver said:Saron81 said:Most likely needs a fuel pressure sensor. There are 2. A high pressure sensor on the rail, and a low pressure sensor on the line. Pump failure is way more rare. Those will usually set codes though.
this can be seen in the data as well- the high pressure sensor is light years more important, as it's used 100% of the time injecting fuel.
But look for two things in the data- sudden drop out and recovery in the fuel, and at the same time, the a/f will go very rich very quickly. If both are happening, then the sensor is a good thing to change.
It didn't do that. It went lean and didn't recover. It did throw the P0087 code for a day or two and then it went away.
In reply to 93EXCivic :
Now that I'm working from home, I can't tell you want p0087 is... but it sure sounds like one of hte two pumps is dying.
A quick google says that it's a high pressure pump code. Which is a bummer. Easy to get to, but expensive pump.
Replying to this thread so I will remember to look at it at work tomorrow.
Look at the logs to see the chicken and egg... did (measured) pressure drop before the RPM faltered, or after?
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