bravenrace wrote:4cylndrfury wrote: In reply to bravenrace: better late than never.I agree, but don't expect a lot of cheering.
There is a big difference between not-cheering and denouncing.
Full disclaimer, Im actually having a lot of fun in this thread, I hope no one is getting heated. This is fun car guy stuff...the adult equivalent to "my dad can beat up your dad"
In reply to 4cylndrfury:
Yes. But in this particular thread,how much of that have you heard? If you are talking about people that are upset that they would name a 4 door a GN, then I would say that no matter what anyone does, they are never going to please everyone. You can read my take on that in an earlier post. If you are talking about people doubting that the car will turn out well, then I'd have to say there is a precedent for that, and until GM proves them wrong they are absolutely justified in having doubts. It takes companies time to earn a bad rep, and it takes an even longer time to earn a good one. You can't expect people to just jump on the bandwagon because the car "seems" like it "might" be good. I'm rooting for GM to not just succeed, but excel, but my mind about them won't change until a good amount of time after they prove themselves.
In reply to mazdeuce:
That would pretty much be the G8, no? I didn't look it up, but it wasn't a good enough seller to save Pontiac.
alfadriver wrote:nicksta43 wrote: In reply to alfadriver: I had serious discussion with a good custom body man I know about turning my 96 Impala SS into coupe. I would have had to max out a couple credit cards to do it so in the end I chickened out. But yes, I will never buy another 4 door again.So it looses appeal to a handful of people... ok. If 2 door RWD performance cars were that high of demand, BMW would make a whole lot more of them. Instead, most of the 3 series and 5 series cars have 4 doors. Amazing.
I'm not saying that 2 door cars are in high demand. 4 doors have traditionally out sold their 2 door equivalent in almost every instance. That's no surprise. But know that everyone besides a couple German makes have stopped making them we (people who want a coupe) have no choice. That is what is most depressing.
On Mazdadueces point. I don't recall a huge amount of people complaining about that issue?
Growing up Mom had an '83 Regal then an '85 Riviera. I don't ever remember having any issues with not having four doors. Mom is 74yo now and drives a newer Malibu. She still hates that it has four doors.
In reply to bravenrace:
Well, I think that on paper, the GN or whatever it will be called looks pretty solid. Ive had a few hiccups with my current purchased-new GM product, but attribute that to it being the initial offering of a brand new platform, drivetrain, and other associated bits. Aside from that hiccup, Im overall happy...great car, would buy again. If I were provided the opportunity (meaning, had I the budget to allow for the purchase) a GS would be at the top of my list...utility per dollar is high with that one, plus I think it looks cool. As a (hopefully) soon-to-be-new father, having the extra pair of doors is a plus, as it would (will?) be my DD, and baby seats and coupes are the evil work of the devil himself.
TL,DR = I would vote yes on the GN/GS with my wallet if my wallet was able to reach that far. GM has indeed had quality and performance issues in the past, but they have PROVEN themselves to me since then. My '10 Terrain has been 97.65% excellent, as was the '05 Ion before it, and thats enough precedent to sway my opinion.
bravenrace wrote: In reply to mazdeuce: That would pretty much be the G8... it wasn't a good enough seller to save Pontiac.
In fairness, I dont think any one car wouldve been...'merkuh was thirsty for blood, and GM had to amputate a leg to save the rest.
In reply to 4cylndrfury:
But I think you know that my point was that there really was a 4 door GTO, or at least close to it, and it didn't sell well either. I liked both of those cars, but also thought they were both overpriced. They were also not your typical born in the USA GM cars.
bravenrace wrote: In reply to 4cylndrfury: But I think you know that my point was that there really was a 4 door GTO, or at least close to it, and it didn't sell well either. I liked both of those cars, but also thought they were both overpriced. They were also not your typical born in the USA GM cars.
The GTO didn't sell because of bland styling. The G8 didn't sell because it came out in the middle of the financial crisis and yet another rise in gas prices. Just because those two particular cars didn't sell doesn't mean a car like them wouldn't. I think the Chevy SS would, if GM would put more than an absolute minimal amount of marketing behind it. Most people don't know it exists.
In reply to Tom_Spangler:
Nothing sold well in the middle of the financial crisis, and the G8 sold worse than most. It was overpriced. And the GTO? The original had bland styling as well and sold very well, albeit in a different era. Why a car does or doesn't sell isn't an absolute. We can only speculate. And frankly, I don't really care that much, so I'll just go back to my earlier statement that there is no reason to name a new car after an old one if it has little in common with the old one. Sedan versus coupe is a deciding factor for me. YMMV
In reply to bravenrace:
Marketing. It's the only performance-inspired name in Buick's history, aside from the esoteric GSX/Stage I/II/III. Do you think GM cares that it doesn't follow the original recipe? Of course not. They want to sell a car with a name that conjures up memories of original's ass-kicking power.
bravenrace wrote: In reply to Tom_Spangler: Nothing sold well in the middle of the financial crisis, and the G8 sold worse than most. It was overpriced. And the GTO? The original had bland styling as well and sold very well, albeit in a different era. Why a car does or doesn't sell isn't an absolute. We can only speculate. And frankly, I don't really care that much, so I'll just go back to my earlier statement that there is no reason to name a new car after an old one if it has little in common with the old one. Sedan versus coupe is a deciding factor for me. YMMV
Yeah, I was probably oversimplifying a bit when I blamed the financial crisis for the failure of the G8. Really, it was GM's bankruptcy (due in large part to the financial crisis, among other things) and the subsequent death of Pontiac itself, which doomed it.
As for me, if I'm dropping that kind of coin on a DD-type, I'd just as soon have 4 doors myself.
Images without the E36 M3ty scoops
Meh, I like the E36 M3ty scoops.
I can't say I'm surprised, I have seen what else you like 
Joe Gearin wrote: Say Acura launched a new 4-door high performance sedan and revived the Integra Type R moniker. Don't you think the Honda guys would have an issue with that? Or let's say Ford created a 4-door Mustang--- regardless of how good a car the new one would be--- folks would have a problem with the name.
GNX would be like Type R (except they made a lot more Type Rs). GN would be like the GSR and Honda did make four-door GSRs.
Just sayin'.
And there WAS backlash about the Charger being a fourdoor. For about two minutes.
This thread is like listening to your hilariously dysfunctional great aunt & uncle argue over dinner.
I love this board.
Gee, it's too bad I had stuff to do today, and missed out on all the fun. To address a few comments, I really don't care what it's called. You call it an Edsel for all I care. It's a performance car, and it should be a 2 dr. Period. The last generation of GN's are modern day classics, and very collectable. These will be nothing more than daily drivers for the huge majority of people who buy them. Not performance cars, not project cars, and they will never be collectable because there is no demand for 4 dr. performance cars. Am I an old fart? No question, but you can't tell me there's any appetite for a 4 dr. Miata, Corvette, Camaro, Mustang, or any other real sporty performance car. The BMW's mentioned earlier? Luxury cars for 99% of the people who can afford to buy them. If you think you need a 4 dr. sedan (you don't), I'm OK with that, but those bodies shouldn't be tarted up and called a real performance car. These cars will sell and be forgotten like all the 3.8 S/C 4 dr sedans sitting in the wrecking yards that nobody cares about. Build it as a 2 dr and it will become a guaranteed collectable. For good reason.
In reply to singleslammer:
There is no accounting for taste
Zomby Woof wrote: You call it an Edsel for all I care. It's a performance car, and it should be a 2 dr. Period.
Wow, thanks for basically telling me I should be issued a mandatory 4-cylinder automatic Camry in punishment for actually wanting a 4-door. :rolleyes:
Duke wrote:Zomby Woof wrote: You call it an Edsel for all I care. It's a performance car, and it should be a 2 dr. Period.Wow, thanks for basically telling me I should be issued a mandatory 4-cylinder automatic Camry in punishment for actually wanting a 4-door. :rolleyes:
What about those of us who like high performance manual transmission.....wagons?
I was thinking about this some more while at the dentist today. 
It dawned on me: this should be the Regal GS. The GS/GSX could become the performance four door, and the two door variant would be the Grand National/GNX. And they could reach back in time and bring back the Stage 1/Stage 2 packages as extra special editions.
This would put them in direct competition with the Dodge Charger and Challenger, and NOT in competition with Cadillac.
With that said, where the berkeley is the Ford four door RWD car that should compete with these cars? The Taurus is just not it.
To those who would disagree with the following:
Zomby Woof wrote: Gee, it's too bad I had stuff to do today, and missed out on all the fun. To address a few comments, I really don't care what it's called. You call it an Edsel for all I care. It's a performance car, and it should be a 2 dr. Period. The last generation of GN's are modern day classics, and very collectable. These will be nothing more than daily drivers for the huge majority of people who buy them. Not performance cars, not project cars, and they will never be collectable because there is no demand for 4 dr. performance cars. Am I an old fart? No question, but you can't tell me there's any appetite for a 4 dr. Miata, Corvette, Camaro, Mustang, or any other real sporty performance car. The BMW's mentioned earlier? Luxury cars for 99% of the people who can afford to buy them. If you think you need a 4 dr. sedan (you don't), I'm OK with that, but those bodies shouldn't be tarted up and called a real performance car. These cars will sell and be forgotten like all the 3.8 S/C 4 dr sedans sitting in the wrecking yards that nobody cares about. Build it as a 2 dr and it will become a guaranteed collectable. For good reason.
I offer this:
Zomby Woof is right on the money.
For once, I agree with ZW...
You're just not reading my posts well enough, because I'm this right practically all the time.
Zomby Woof wrote: Gee, it's too bad I had stuff to do today, and missed out on all the fun. To address a few comments, I really don't care what it's called. You call it an Edsel for all I care. It's a performance car, and it should be a 2 dr. Period. The last generation of GN's are modern day classics, and very collectable. These will be nothing more than daily drivers for the huge majority of people who buy them. Not performance cars, not project cars, and they will never be collectable because there is no demand for 4 dr. performance cars. Am I an old fart? No question, but you can't tell me there's any appetite for a 4 dr. Miata, Corvette, Camaro, Mustang, or any other real sporty performance car. The BMW's mentioned earlier? Luxury cars for 99% of the people who can afford to buy them. If you think you need a 4 dr. sedan (you don't), I'm OK with that, but those bodies shouldn't be tarted up and called a real performance car. These cars will sell and be forgotten like all the 3.8 S/C 4 dr sedans sitting in the wrecking yards that nobody cares about. Build it as a 2 dr and it will become a guaranteed collectable. For good reason.
BullE36 M3.
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