$2017 Challenge Concour Points and Judging

I missed this the first time around, but had a thought and have been trying to skim through very quickly over my lunch, so apologies if this ship has sailed.

I wonder if part of the exhaustion for the judges is in trying to judge all three of the concourse scoring categories at the same time?

My thought was a variation on the multiple teams of judges. Rather than having multiple teams, that judge all three, you have a team of (2-3) judges that focuses solely on innovation, execution, or presentation? I'd be fine with past/current (well respected) entrants being part of those teams.

The team of judges rotate around 12 cars at a time before taking a break, then moving onto the next dozen. that would make sure that all the competitors are in place while the judges do the rotation, IE: Execution team is at car A, while Innovation is at car B, and each car gets 2 minutes per judging team? You'd end up with double the time per entrant spent on judging the car overall, in 2/3rds the time, and hopefully less judging fatigue.

could still apply this with the "standard deduction" option.

That's not a bad idea, but then you have participants (who are pretty vocal about their dislike for the concours) having to basically present and endure a concours 3 times throughout the day.

Tom Suddard wrote: That's not a bad idea, but then you have participants (who are pretty vocal about their dislike for the concours) having to basically present and endure a concours 3 times throughout the day.

Roger that. I suggest it as a possible approach that could be scaled based on the "how many get judged/standard deduction" discussion lands.

Also, to some extent, are those who are very vocal about the dislike for concourse ever going to like it? Maybe they'd like it better if they could focus showing off for each category at a time, instead of trying to balance all three?

Again, just ideas, and I appreciate that you guys open it up like this for them.

maschinenbau wrote: My big station wagon scored a 13.3 last year in concours. It was pretty much stock-appearing other than the Corvette wheels. Looking back, I probably would have just taken the 10 points instead of wasting 5 minutes. On the other hand, I got to tell my story of the last-minute engine failure and replacement, which I narrowly completed in time for the Challenge. And the fact that I drove it 2,000 miles round trip on an untested junkyard engine. The story is probably why I scored more than 10 points. But I knew I was slow and had no shot at top 10, so I probably would have opted out of concours at the expense of GRM not having those interesting details about my story to put the in magazine. Still not sure how I feel about this solution, but it's good to talk about.

I suspect the Judges are judging, and not writing the cool details down that make the articles.

Yeah, judges don't really contribute to the editorial. That magic happens when those of us that aren't judging talk to you during the event, either in the concours pavilion, in the paddock, in the staging lanes, or in the hot tub. That's where the stories come from.

Tom Suddard wrote: or in the hot tub. That's where the stories come from.

If only that hot tub could talk. The stories it would tell.

Food for thought:

If the top 3 finishers in 2016 opted out and took 10 points, they would have still finished 8th, 7th and 9th in overall.

Don't know what that means, but something I'm sure.

I wonder how barn find would go over.

Fit and Finish, Don't call it a Concours, I myself rate a complete but Stock Interior WAY above a stripped but maybe Painted or not interior. Cars with Paint Like the Mumpkin are better than one that Has "Patina" Just simple Fit and Finish.It's not Amilia Island. Nothing to be Scared of

In reply to GTXVette:

Ok, but it's not fit and finish.

The Concours is designed to give the highest scores to creativity, effort and engineering. Stuff that looks cool in a magazine.

Fit and finish doesn't cover it.

It is, and always has been about generating great stories they can print in the magazine.

One of the all-time favorite cars that has ever been there was when John Haas dropped a '49 Chevy Coupe on top of a '94 Caprice Police interceptor chassis. Terrible fit and finish. Totally awesome car. (And ALL patina- not a drop of new paint on it)

The Mumpkin's Concourse was not about fit and finish- it's actually a terrible paint job- entirely done with rattle cans. It was about 7 years of Challenge stories to tell, and great pics for the magazine.

I'm really sad this part of the event is so hard for people to understand. It's the best part as far as I am concerned.

THIS Concours is about how to judge what a bunch of insane wrench turning monkeys would bring with no money, NOT about what a bunch of high dollar dweebs would bring to Amelia Island on trailers for investors to gawk at.

SVreX wrote: THIS Concours is about how to judge what a bunch of insane wrench turning monkeys would bring with no money, NOT about what a bunch of high dollar dweebs would bring to Amelia Island on trailers for investors to gawk at.

I thought that IS what I said. No biggie. I work on that kind of car daily but my DD looks like a garbage can and smells like wet dogs(we just left the Creek). My hot rods fall somewhere inbetween.

I think from here out I will name it
The Concours d'Flatulance

Ovid_and_Flem wrote: Food for thought: If the top 3 finishers in 2016 opted out and took 10 points, they would have still finished 8th, 7th and 9th in overall. Don't know what that means, but something I'm sure.

If the top 3 finisher opt out of the Concour, it just means they have not paid attention to the last 14 Challenges. That's all.

Has this been codified, or is it still up in the air?

eastsidemav wrote: Has this been codified, or is it still up in the air?

If you want your car judged it will be judged. As far as I know, the standard point option is not final yet.

Can the people who opt out all get t shirts that say:

So what I built a challenge car? Don't judge me.

Robbie wrote: Can the people who opt out all get t shirts that say: So what I built a challenge car? Don't judge me.

Final decision is coming soon! Sorry to keep you guys hanging, but I promise you'll like what I post when I post it.

Tom Suddard wrote: Final decision is coming soon! Sorry to keep you guys hanging, but I promise you'll like what I post when I post it.

If we don't, 5 point deduction ;)

Sort of like the "you will eat it, you will like it, and you will ask for more" dinners many of us grew up with.

I kid, I kid. Really appreciate the community the staff, and the Challenge event itself (I've only been to 2 - saw the Hass coupe / Caprice, WAY cool build!) and all you guys do to put it all together. And anything that makes the event easier and MORE FUN (for the judges as well as participants)... sounds like a great plan.

GSmith wrote:

Tom Suddard wrote: Final decision is coming soon! Sorry to keep you guys hanging, but I promise you'll like what I post when I post it.

If we don't, 5 point deduction ;) Sort of like the "you will eat it, you will like it, and you will ask for more" dinners many of us grew up with. I kid, I kid. Really appreciate the community the staff, and the Challenge event itself (I've only been to 2 - saw the Hass coupe / Caprice, WAY cool build!) and all you guys do to put it all together. And anything that makes the event easier and MORE FUN (for the judges as well as participants)... sounds like a great plan.

Yup more fun! By the way, i'll have way more fun when i win the new welder

Patrick wrote: Yup more fun! By the way, i'll have way more fun when i buy the new welder from Andrew and Calvin

Fixed it for you.

SVreX wrote:

Patrick wrote: Yup more fun! By the way, i'll have way more fun when i buy the new welder from Andrew and Calvin

Fixed it for you.

At the rate they're going 2nd or 3rd should get the welder.

Maybe they're just getting into the hobby of welder collecting?

Can't wait to see what the ruling is going to look like. May have an effect on what I bring down there.

Should people bring cash in case the Nelsons win again and just happen to have a welder for sale on Sunday morning? I'm Kidding? We have gone to plan B for $2017, so we would be fine with modified judging to help keep the judges from getting burnt out.

As I wrote before, only the top half of the Dynamic finishers need to be judged... unless you built a car to do well at Concourse.