I think I like how it looks. The new Civic is actually nice in person and, well, a Type R Honda is supposed to have a big wing right?
I think I like how it looks. The new Civic is actually nice in person and, well, a Type R Honda is supposed to have a big wing right?
JG Pasterjak wrote:drdisque wrote: I'd be more enthused if it was wearing smaller wheels. There's no reason it needs 20" wheels with the ridiculous tire size 245/30R20Conceptually agree. But... Those tall tires and the gearing combine for a 64mph second gear. That's going to be a big plus on an autocross course.
FTFY...Although I don't think there is any argument that the tires are too tall, just the wheels.
DrBoost wrote: If the spoiler worked (it can't with that much flex)...
It wouldn't flex if it wasn't doing anything.
Driven5 wrote:DrBoost wrote: If the spoiler worked (it can't with that much flex)...It wouldn't flex if it wasn't doing anything.
I get what you're saying, but as aero load starts to build, the spoiler will just flex instead of staying rigid and transferring the force. Take torque sticks for example. My 600 ft. lb. impact is imparting 600+ pounds of twist, but 510 is being absorbed by the stick. I've never seen a proper spoiler flex like that. I've even pushed on some and never got deflexion. I'm also no aero-engineer, just going on anecdotal evidence.
But I'm in the minority here. There are enough fanbois that will see "TypeR" on the back and scoop 'em up.
That being said, I'm always glad to see the performance bar raised. It benefits all car enthusiasts. Who knows. maybe FCA will pull it's head out of the sand and build an SRT hatch. Been waiting on that since the introduction of the Dart.
DrBoost wrote:Driven5 wrote:I get what you're saying, but as aero load starts to build, the spoiler will just flex instead of staying rigid and transferring the force. Take torque sticks for example. My 600 ft. lb. impact is imparting 600+ pounds of twist, but 510 is being absorbed by the stick. I've never seen a proper spoiler flex like that. I've even pushed on some and never got deflexion. I'm also no aero-engineer, just going on anecdotal evidence.DrBoost wrote: If the spoiler worked (it can't with that much flex)...It wouldn't flex if it wasn't doing anything.
The force is still pushing on the wing. You can't use the torque stick analogy because an impact gun works with impacts, and the torque stick is a spring that bounces back after every impact. If you used a breaker bar on a torque stick, you can go beyond their rated torque limit. (Try it with a torque wrench for extra fun)
This is also why torque sticks are pretty inaccurate, even before they wear out or break in use.
Suggesting that the force on the wing is lost because the wing is flexing is like saying the force on tires is lost because the suspension is compressing. Static loads, not dynamic!
Telling people to get over themselves because they point out the sheer needless use of idiot styling is just not on. The fact is this car could look so much better without all the needless GMesque whoopdeedoos and geegaws. And anything that has "R" appended to it needs to be a track focused monster with anything not related to performance shoved in the bin. Regardless of performance, and frankly, 306 hp shoving 3100 lbs through the front wheels is not that spectacular, this thing is hideous and its not something a lot of people would want to be seen in.
Are we not allowed to talk pricing in the real world yet? Local dealership was 20K over sticker for one right now.
In reply to wearymicrobe:
They probably saw just how much the first one sold for, and figured telling customers they're "only" charging 1/10 of that in markup will make it seem like a bargain.
I could swear a dark blue one went down my road this afternoon, too fast for a great look, but that rear end is pretty recognizable.
HapDL wrote: frankly, 306 hp shoving 3100 lbs through the front wheels is not that spectacular
The fact that humans have become jaded enough to current performance levels to write this sentence tells me it's a great time to be alive.
JG Pasterjak wrote:HapDL wrote: frankly, 306 hp shoving 3100 lbs through the front wheels is not that spectacularThe fact that humans have become jaded enough to current performance levels to write this sentence tells me it's a great time to be alive.
I still remember the Holy E36 M3 Moment that Da Boss had when we were road tuning a car that could NOT hook up on asphalt at any speed, and accelerated to felony speeds on concrete in absurdly short times (making me involuntarily giggle every time he crushed carpet with the accelerator pedal), and I looked at the injector duty cycles, did a little bit of head-math, and pointed out that it was only slightly more power than you could buy, right then, at any Ford dealership, with a clean bill of emissions health and a 100k mile warranty and impeccable daily driving manners.
Granted, a DOHC 5.4l has an easier time making power than a 4.3l pushrod engine, but the fact that the GT500 existed at all is remarkable.
JG Pasterjak wrote:HapDL wrote: frankly, 306 hp shoving 3100 lbs through the front wheels is not that spectacularThe fact that humans have become jaded enough to current performance levels to write this sentence tells me it's a great time to be alive.
No kidding. Remember when Japanese supercars were limited to 278hp (or there abouts) because more that that was absurd? This is a Civic. With 306hp from the factory.
mazdeuce wrote: No kidding. Remember when Japanese supercars were limited to 278hp (or there abouts) because more that that was absurd? This is a Civic. With 306hp from the factory.
I believe they still do have the 276hp gentleman's agreement... for cars built in Japan. (I remember the twin turbo Supra made 320hp in the US and 276hp in Japan and it was the same dang car)
Kind of like the agreement the German automakers who aren't Porsche or AMG have regarding 250km/h speeds. Which, apparently, is why Chrysler 300s were popular among Mercedes execs, since they could hit 170mph.
can someone explain to me what "dual-link front suspension" is?
In reply to sleepyhead:
JG had a really good picture and explanation during the live stream that night. I'm not sure where the video is to watch again and grab it though, possibly on the GRM Facebook page?
I could take a stab at an explanation for the "floppy spoiler"... although, I didn't see that in the article... so is it flexing side-to-side, or is the 'back' (i.e. trailing edge) able to twist... i.e. flopping down?
sleepyhead wrote: can someone explain to me what "dual-link front suspension" is?
I am assuming that it is a strut based suspension with dual ball joints, as was the fad in the late 90s and 00s. Good to see that Honda is finally catching up. They always were massively conservative with design, sticking with carburetors until 1990-ish and distributors even longer.
RevRico wrote: In reply to sleepyhead: JG had a really good picture and explanation during the live stream that night. I'm not sure where the video is to watch again and grab it though, possibly on the GRM Facebook page?
found it on there (the 'special edition' GRM live video), thanks!
sleepyhead wrote: can someone explain to me what "dual-link front suspension" is?
Type R on the left. Regular Civic on the right.
Note: Honda frowns on journalists bringing jacks and tire guns to press launches, so i wasn't able together a wheel off and take a closer look. One of the "make or break" factors for this car IMO will be if there's any additional camber available up front. If there is, it'll be a hell of a good tuning tool.
Initial reaction is that it's a kingpin setup like a G20, but there's no upper control arm.
Looking for images of Ford's RevoKnuckle and the goofy arrangement on the Regal GS.
Buick:
Ford:
(GIS for Revo Knuckle got a smaller version of the Buick suspension as one of the first hits)
After owning a 5-speed 2011 Accord Sedan for 6 years and 152,000 miles I was impressed with Honda. This car is not in my cards since I need a truck for work. This is a dream car for me - just like having a 370Z for work - it will never happen.
Still - I drove that Accord like Mario every day and I made that four cylinder sing - After owning a Honda I am a fan. I just need to figure out how to work on getting an older Civic Si into my garage.
But but but wait! Torque steer has nothing to do with unequal length cv shafts?!? Holy crap, Honda is stomping out internet myths once again.
Datsun310Guy wrote: After owning a 5-speed 2011 Accord Sedan for 6 years and 152,000 miles I was impressed with Honda. This car is not in my cards since I need a truck for work. This is a dream car for me - just like having a 370Z for work - it will never happen. Still - I drove that Accord like Mario every day and I made that four cylinder sing - After owning a Honda I am a fan. I just need to figure out how to work on getting an older Civic Si into my garage.
It's funny, kinda the opposite here. My first Honda is our current Odyssey DD. It seems every week I'm finding out another way that Honda was short-sighted and only academic in it's ability to build cars. Our next minivan purchase will find us in a FCA dealership, passing right by the Honda store.
But again, I'm glad it exists even if it's horrifically overstyled. Competition is always good for the breed.
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