2020 Corvette Stingray C8: What We Know and Our First Impressions

MTechnically said:

In reply to Knurled. :

You don't see how the experience of perfectly executing a rev matched heel and toe downshift gives you a different sense of satisfaction over just pulling a lever?

Your point about instantaneous shifting and not finding yourself in the wrong gear is related to what I like about manuals. There is stronger negative feedback for "bad" driving. I like the extra challenge that a manual provides.

The old "Not a true a Scotsman" fallacy.

Have you made that perfect "heel/toe" on two wheels? See that's the real enthusiast, that's the real person that enjoys going fast!

See how easy it is to say something that doesn't really make sense?

Now I wonder about a CVT with a manual lever, where the lever position sets the engine RPM.  That'd be pretty cool.

Regarding the idea of a "challenge"... the most fun cars I have ever driven were the ones where I could keep my head outside the car.  The challenge should be the road/course.  There is nothing but frustration in having a car that you know could be faster if only a glaring deficiency wasn't holding you back.

I rode in two very different mind-bogglingly fast cars yesterday - a built STi and a slightly less built Evo X.  The Evo was very fast and the driver was always in the gear he wanted because he could hit the shift lever (steering wheel paddles are a moving target) and the car WILL be kn the gear he wanted, no worrying about having to time the shift while on a straight or something.

The STi just had big-block like torque and absolutely no turbo lag I could feel from the right seat, so he just left it in one gear and drove the course.  No need to waste time shifting once 30 feet or so from the starting line.

In recent years I have been softening my "stick shift or die!" attitude. And honestly, having just returned from a couple of days driving western NC/East TN roads (Tail of the Dragon plus others), it's softened even more. Yes, it was fun driving the MINI there and that car is a 6 spd manual, but was it really only fun because of the transmission? No, not really. It's not a race track, so I wasn't pushing the limits of the car or traction to the point where I really needed to heal-toe very often, or even try to. A good manu-matic would have been just as good if not better and probably just as much fun.

So at this point in my life, whether or not a C8 is available with a manual transmission is not something that concerns me. And I am absolutely someone who could consider one of these if I really wanted to readjust my financial priorities. At this point I'm not willing to, but life can change.

In reply to z31maniac :

Yeah, it wouldn't make sense to say that's the only way to enjoy a car or be a real enthusiast. It's a good thing I never said or even implied something like that. 

Sounds like the only fallacy being used here is the strawman.

Also: You can’t be a REAL <insert south park harley episode nomenclature> unless you’re berkeleying CONSTANTLY revving in neutral/clutch pedal in.

poopshovel again said:

Also: You can’t be a REAL <insert south park harley episode nomenclature> unless you’re berkeleying CONSTANTLY revving in neutral/clutch pedal in.

Obviously, what's the point of having a V8 if you don't rev it like a Harley at every intersection.

z31maniac said:

poopshovel again said:

Also: You can’t be a REAL <insert south park harley episode nomenclature> unless you’re berkeleying CONSTANTLY revving in neutral/clutch pedal in.

Obviously, what's the point of having a V8 if you don't rev it like a Harley at every intersection.

I can't remember where I read it, but pulling both paddles in a C8, at any speed, and in any gear, gives you neutral. Chevy gets it.

z31maniac said:

Ozzy said:

I want love it but no manual is a deal breaker for me.  I still prefer to be involve in driving experience not just a passenger.  

So what you're saying is, "I've never driven a modern dual-clutch gearbox and why are those clouds there!"

Nope that's not what I said...  You are obviously much wiser than I so please interrupted it as you want.  Actually my money my choice.  In that $60-$125,000 price range where I assume the new Vettes (GS, Z06, ZR1) will end up there are enough other things I would rather spend my money on, that I can still row thru the gears manually, so the new Vette is off my short list.  Besides with a starting price around $60,000 I can see it ending up like the modern Mustang, Challenger/Charger & Camaro where every other driveway has one.  I prefer to have something a little different.

Ozzy said:

z31maniac said:

Ozzy said:

I want love it but no manual is a deal breaker for me.  I still prefer to be involve in driving experience not just a passenger.  

So what you're saying is, "I've never driven a modern dual-clutch gearbox and why are those clouds there!"

Nope that's not what I said...  You are obviously much wiser than I so please interrupted it as you want.  Actually my money my choice.  In that $60-$125,000 price range where I assume the new Vettes (GS, Z06, ZR1) will end up there are enough other things I would rather spend my money on, that I can still row thru the gears manually, so the new Vette is off my short list.  Besides with a starting price around $60,000 I can see it ending up like the modern Mustang, Challenger/Charger & Camaro where every other driveway has one.  I prefer to have something a little different.

So which $60k-$120k car are you trading your Hyundai in for???

I don’t need to test drive an AT Veloster to tell you that transmission sucks. In your $60k-$120k range, the lines get a little blurrier.

I think I can settle the debate once and for all. Someone bring a manual C7 and a new C8 to Gingerman, I'll spend a day thoroughly evaluating (for science, of course,) and then report back which is more engaging.

My impressions: From some angles I see a bit of C6 in the front end and I like it.  The Z06 is going to be freakin epic. There are some nice color options.

I don’t get why wanting a manual is so controversial all of a sudden.. on an enthusiast board no less. There is a market for that product, and even Porsche head of GT knows that there’s a segment of their customers where technical perfection isn’t the main goal and improving 0.05 seconds just isn’t important. 

From his interview recently:

“I think we have an advantage in the market over the competition because everybody has skipped and deleted the atmospheric engine and deleted even the manual gearbox. That’s a mistake! Because if you look at the take rates on the GT model side, in some markets half of the cars are manual and everybody is longing for a car like this with a normally aspirated, high-revving engine,” he enthused.

For buyers of these cars, an engaging drive is important – maybe the most important.

"It’s not an A-to-B means of transportation. It’s something you do for yourself, it’s something you do for pleasure; and in that case it’s a healthy car, it’s like medicine because everybody is grinning and that’s healthy," Preuninger said.

mad_machine said:

KurtK01 said:

My observation is that the rear end is too busy. May be the first thing GM re-designs.

Depending on how the C8 sells, you may see more price drops for the C6s and C7s.

it's busy, but remember, being mid-engined, it needs the vents to exhaust the air that keeps the engine compartment cool. While you can say that the Mr2 and Fiero didn't have that much venting, they also did not come as a slippery fastback either. I think they will fine tune it, but it's still going to remain perforated with venting no matter what they do

Not only this, but GM went way way out on a limb with this car, so my assumption is that all the aero stuff, thermal management and vents is to prevent the opportunity for overheating and fires. Like it or not, those vents are there for an actual reason.

The Corvette team does NOT want a Fiero rehash, nor to be compared to all the mid-engine supercars burning to the ground. Let's see, we have Lamborghini Gallardo, Porsche GT3, Ferrari 458, McLaren (number soup) etc. example videos that have been recorded on fire.

Between all the bad press they got from overheating Z06 and ZR1 C7's on the track, and the potential negative feedback from current Vette owners with the move to the mid-engine platform, I think the last 5 years of development has been taken as seriously as GM has ever pursued a new platform.

That this is most likely the last hurrah for a high performance ICE platform from any manufacturer before electrification and hybridization become the defacto norm, and that the Corvette name is the most profitable car for GM, indicates to me that they went all-out on this generation.

This car has actually made me completely rethink my stance on building my own supercar.  I'm actually contemplating buying a new car for the first time in 2 decades. 

This is the car that I wished the C7 had been.  I'm waiting to see how things develop, but I'm actually psyched at the level of performance and potential of this platform.

I've been trying to find a local-ish dealer that is part of the C8 pre-sales tour so that I can see it in person and sit in it. That might be all it takes to push me from the "enthused" to the "committed". My supercar build fund might very well go towards a deposit on the C8...and I'm ok with that. I've never been more excited at the prospect of what the aftermarket comes up with for this car!!

Did they have any of them driving ?

The blimp hanger is a cool place that goes not get much use anymore ,

I have been to a car show there and they also  had a vintage car race there.....

But lots of room for test drives and a few speed runs !

BlueInGreen - Jon said:

I think I can settle the debate once and for all. Someone bring a manual C7 and a new C8 to Gingerman, I'll spend a day thoroughly evaluating (for science, of course,) and then report back which is more engaging.

"That is a sacrifice that I am willing to make!"

I see a perfect example of a thread gone astray.....again.

bcp2011 said:

I don’t get why wanting a manual is so controversial all of a sudden.. on an enthusiast board no less. There is a market for that product, and even Porsche head of GT knows that there’s a segment of their customers where technical perfection isn’t the main goal and improving 0.05 seconds just isn’t important. 

From his interview recently:

“I think we have an advantage in the market over the competition because everybody has skipped and deleted the atmospheric engine and deleted even the manual gearbox. That’s a mistake! Because if you look at the take rates on the GT model side, in some markets half of the cars are manual and everybody is longing for a car like this with a normally aspirated, high-revving engine,” he enthused.

For buyers of these cars, an engaging drive is important – maybe the most important.

"It’s not an A-to-B means of transportation. It’s something you do for yourself, it’s something you do for pleasure; and in that case it’s a healthy car, it’s like medicine because everybody is grinning and that’s healthy," Preuninger said.

That’s totally valid. But again, if Chevy was offering two transmissions, every car, with either transmission, would likely cost more. 

I’m sure there was a “Should we offer a manual” discussion, followed by some cost/benefit analysis, and predictions on how many manuals would actually SELL.

In reply to poopshovel again :

Hyundai did that with the Genesis (G70?) They offered a manual, knowing full well the auto would out sell it 10 to 1. berkeleying Hyundai!

I don't know how much the over-MSRP premium will be, or how long it will last, but if I won a lottery and went into the local Chevy dealer I would not ever expect to buy one for the list base price. Dealers will presumably carry only higher trim levels, just as they do with every other model; the base price is a marketing gimmick, not a product price.

For an example (sorry, not from GM), the Ford Ranger pickup here starts at $31K (and all are 4WD), but everything on the lot is a $50K+ loaded package.

If there is ever an AWD version, I think it's safe to assume that it will be a hybrid with electric-only front drive. After going to the extreme of a mid-engine configuration to put weight on the drive wheels, the rear wheels are going to stay the primary drive wheels and driving the fronts would only be for stability control and better regenerative braking. Squeezing a shaft past the engine to the front just isn't worth doing.

A hybrid mid engined AWD ZR1 would be interesting. I doubt I would pull the trigger on even a new $60k version unless I had an unexpected windfall. Too much money for me to spend on a toy, but this car does have me interested.

Knurled. said:

My point about the wrong gear is, unless you have a CVT, you are always in the wrong gear.  (Or even if you have a poorly calibrated CVT)

False. When you want to go backwards, you use reverse. That is the only gear for that purpose, hence, it's the right gear. 

Anyhow, can we get back to what an amazing performance bargain this is shaping up to be?

Let's rehash this again:

$60k! FOR THAT!  They could probably paint something really offensive on the hood of every one and still move them all out the door.

In reply to Brett_Murphy :

My strategy was to ignore the side conversation about whether or not it is acceptable for someone to have a different opinion than mine so I feel compelled to argue with them because I am sure I can get them to see things my way if I just make up strawman arguments and then rebut them. I see your approach is to try to steer the conversation back to something we can all agree on. I like your spirit, but don’t share your optimism. 

deaconblue said:

In reply to te72 :

If you like the current Camaro, better buy one before they are discontinued again.  

Can't see out of them, never been my thing to drive by faith. A car's belt line should not be higher than my actual belt line, and while I'm not tall by any means, I am mostly legs. Great driving cars though, love everything about them other than the poor visibility. Nothing like having 700+hp, in my friend Tony's case, and driving effectively with 3 of 4 windows that are basically useless.