This is all going to make a 7 spd C7 Z51 a real bargain oh so soon......
This is all going to make a 7 spd C7 Z51 a real bargain oh so soon......
z31maniac said:I really wish the manufacturer's would clamp down on these dealer markups. It does nothing but bolster ill will with the majority of people toward the dealership model.
Only the most die hard people are willing to pay 15/20/40% markups over MSRP which just slows sales.
I've already seen a post about a Toyota dealer marketing a new "Zupra" at a $45k dollar markup.
Agreed. There is no incentive for a guy like me to buy a new car when it is priced above what the manufacturer says to sell it for. Then again, if the market will bear it, then so be it, I suppose. Just means less overall sales, which... last I checked, is the whole idea of making a car.
I've seen a few ridiculous Mk5 listings as well. Honestly, if you're willing to pay 100k for a Supra, you'd just buy a super clean Mk4. At least it won't likely depreciate.
Knurled. said:Ozzy said:I want love it but no manual is a deal breaker for me. I still prefer to be involve in driving experience not just a passenger.
Electric power steering that kills feel, drive by wire that controls the engine as an interpretation of what it thinks you think you want, divided by what it is programmed to allow you to have, braking that is closer to brake by wire at this point and has integral handling control... and shifting with a paddle on the steering column instead of an H gate is your hangup?
Horse is waaaay out of the barn, man.
Shhh... don't ruin the dream for me too haha. This is one of the few new cars I'll probably seriously consider. Up until now, most cars... I could do better in the garage for the same money, maybe even less. Funny enough, some of the cheapest cars at our autocrosses in Wyoming are among the fastest, so obviously doesn't take money to have fun. That said, I really don't think I could do better than a C8 for that price. Factory Five GTM comes to mind, but "better" is not something I suspect it would be. As fast? Perhaps, if driven quite well.
Either way, I just wanted to comment that I have a ton of newfound respect for you, Knurled, for using a username picture from xkcd's "What If?" series. Made my night.
There is a reasonable chance that the choice of transmission has something to do with future hybrid variants. They could certainly still do a manual with ICE cars, as does Porsche, but they can also offer that later.
One thing to consider about the lack of a manual is that they probably wouldn't get nearly the same 0-60 or 1/4 mile times as the dual clutch car and maybe no launch control either. Those are important metrics to some and show up in just about every magazine test.
RX8driver said:One thing to consider about the lack of a manual is that they probably wouldn't get nearly the same 0-60 or 1/4 mile times as the dual clutch car and maybe no launch control either. Those are important metrics to some and show up in just about every magazine test.
Hmm... Clutch by wire?
They already have automatic rev matching for the manuals. (Automatics too! Still mesmerized by that ZL1 video) And the dual clutch trans already is programmed to slip the clutch just right, so there's no reason that couldn't be done with a "traditional" manual. (See also: BMW's fancy automated manual whose name I have forgotten, Smart's ForTwo transmission, which was just a fully automated manual)
At some point, the main difference is what the shifter looks like.
T.J. said:A hybrid mid engined AWD ZR1 would be interesting.
Give it the ability to tow 20k pounds, seat six, and get 50mpg, and it would hit all the marks for the GRM Perfect Car that Nobody Bought because they waited to buy one used.
Knurled. said:T.J. said:A hybrid mid engined AWD ZR1 would be interesting.
Give it the ability to tow 20k pounds, seat six, and get 50mpg, and it would hit all the marks for the GRM Perfect Car that Nobody Bought because they waited to buy one used.
Don't forget, it has to be brown, a wagon (shooting brake), and cost less than a new Mazda 3!
z31maniac said:Knurled. said:T.J. said:A hybrid mid engined AWD ZR1 would be interesting.
Give it the ability to tow 20k pounds, seat six, and get 50mpg, and it would hit all the marks for the GRM Perfect Car that Nobody Bought because they waited to buy one used.
Don't forget, it has to be brown, a wagon (shooting brake), and cost less than a new Mazda 3!
And there has to be a diesel option.
BlueInGreen - Jon said:z31maniac said:Knurled. said:T.J. said:A hybrid mid engined AWD ZR1 would be interesting.
Give it the ability to tow 20k pounds, seat six, and get 50mpg, and it would hit all the marks for the GRM Perfect Car that Nobody Bought because they waited to buy one used.
Don't forget, it has to be brown, a wagon (shooting brake), and cost less than a new Mazda 3!
And there has to be a diesel option.
Three on the tree.
Knurled. said:T.J. said:A hybrid mid engined AWD ZR1 would be interesting.
Give it the ability to tow 20k pounds, seat six, and get 50mpg, and it would hit all the marks for the GRM Perfect Car that Nobody Bought because they waited to buy one used.
Wow. Thanks.
In reply to T.J. :
I'm merely in awe that these are the times we live in.
We're talking about a car that was the bullE36 M3 session ridiculous idea award winner... and now it's in all likelihood going to be production. Full stop.
Wow.
Here's how I'd spec it, with the red interior. Z51 2LT and HRE P101s:
For anyone worried about markups, places like the Kerbeck Corvette Superstore gets HUGE allotments and will most likely be selling them at or near invoice in a few months after introduction... They've done it for the C6 and C7s, as well.
In reply to Chris_V :
From that angle it kinda looks like a 7/4ths scale Europa.
In reply to Chris_V :
I like that blue as well, although I'd go with the tan interior:
For those curious, the online builder is here. It's a bit laggy.
I agree about Kerbeck. They currently show four 2019 Coupes in stock with manuals for just under $45K, although part of the fine print is some of the "Additional Offers" discount applies to "current Corvette owners of at least 30 days". So... go buy a derelict C4 for peanuts and flip it afterwards.
I bet the Honda Engineers and management are crying in their morning coffee. The new NSX is already having a hard time. Now here comes the C8, obviously set up for a future electric/hybrid AWD version that will most likely still be way under $100k. That will be the final nail in the NSX’s coffin. It’s already too close in price to a base McLaren and now GM have a platform that looks as good, will eat the NSX for lunch by the time you add another 100-150hp to. The front wheel with electric power at 2/3rds of the price.
Count me in the like column.
Adrian_Thompson said:I bet the Honda Engineers and management are crying in their morning coffee. The new NSX is already having a hard time. Now here comes the C8, obviously set up for a future electric/hybrid AWD version that will most likely still be way under $100k. That will be the final nail in the NSX’s coffin. It’s already too close in price to a base McLaren and now GM have a platform that looks as good, will eat the NSX for lunch by the time you add another 100-150hp to. The front wheel with electric power at 2/3rds of the price.
Count me in the like column.
Acura's unoffical selling point on the NSX has been "It's not a double priced Corvette; it's a half priced Ferrari!" With the Corvette now aimed squarely at the "looks and runs like a Ferrari at a faction of the price" market, I'll bet Honda is worried here.
It does look good in blue. I'd have the black interior. I also like the transparent roof option:
Like the blue - if only because the trim they decided to paint black doesn't show up as glaringly (if I had any other colour C8 I'd probably paint the trim body colour.
Disappointing that it is so heavy. Losing a driveshaft = an even heavier car? Like a quarter ton more than comparable super cars?? They probably won't sell them at the proposed list price anyway - they'd have been better to have tacked on $10K and put it into lightening the car.
Having said that, I do like it way more than I thought I would based on the test mule pictures. The Transformer toy approach to the aesthetics of the C7 made that one a non-starter for me, but this isn't bad at all. Still not quite what I'd want ideally, which is probably along the lines of a 600 bhp modern day Miura, but that's probably too much to hope for (although a modern Miura wouldn't weigh 2800 lbs. any more unless they used a lot of modern materials)..
The weight is likely the side effect of meeting that price point. It's still fiberglass with an aluminum chassis.
Throwing out some WAG speculation, the Z06 could have a mild power increase combined with various weight saving changes - more carbon fiber, for example. The ZR1, big power and AWD; maybe using hybrid bits, maybe not (we would need to see what provisions they made with the car on a lift - maybe if/when GRM gets one to test, JG?). The GS, somewhere in between.
Yes please.
Too bad the suede and cloth don't come in anything other than black or Grey/Black (not that I object to that combo.)
I'm seriously trying to figure out how to rearrange my finances so I can afford one of these new.
I'll take mine in the darker red with body color side vents, tan interior, no roof, and yellow calipers. Just to piss off the Ferrari people.
I probably wouldn't go with the silver stripes, but I like how they look with the silver engine cover.
This is increasingly looking like my preferred spec when I don't know prices: Zeus Bronze, 2LT, body color accents, Z51, FE4, suede + natural GT2 interior and belts, chrome badging, carbon flash open spoke.
KurtK01 said:My observation is that the rear end is too busy. May be the first thing GM re-designs.
I don't think that's likely. Automotive styling usually gets busier with facelifts, not cleaner. And the current trend in general is to silly excess, not elegant simplicity.
Gingerbeardman said:You can't shorten the gap between rear of the door and the rear wheel wells...there is an engine between there. That length is necessary on a longitudinal setup. The only way that distance could be shortened is going to a transverse setup.
EVERY MID ENGINE CAR WITH A LONGITUDINAL SETUP HAS THIS "GAP".
DeTomaso Pantera, Lotus Esprit, Ferrari 348, F355, F360, F430, F458, F488, Pista, Tributo, Lamborghini Gallardo, Huracan, Audi R8, etc.
The only mid engine cars with a shorter "gap" are all transverse setups: Fiat X1/9, Lancia Beta Montecarlo, MR2 (all three gens), Fiero, etc.
Excellent point and illustration. My only contribution would be more examples which illustrate the importance of engine packaging to proportions; any list of transverse configurations like this should include the Lamborghini Miura, and even the Ferrari Dino and 308 show their transverse-enabled proportions relative to subsequent Ferrari models. The transverse engine allowed the Ferrari 308 GT4 and Mondial to fit in a rear seat without stretching longer than typical longitudinal 2-seaters.
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