STM317 said:
infinitenexus said:
I think that it's nice that a Mustang is being compared to a Corvette. They've always been in completely different leagues.
The top level Mustangs (and Camaros) have been compared to lower trim Corvettes for the last 10 years or so as they usually are in a similar performance/price ballpark. It's a big reason why they went to a mid engine layout for the C8.
The Boss 302, the Shelby GT350, etc all turn really respectable lap times relative to Corvettes of the same price range and era.
A C7 Stingray Z51 did a 2:53.8 lap in C&Ds Lightning Lap
And the Mustang GT PP2 did an identical 2:53.8
A Shelby GT350R did a 2:51.8
"The faster you go, the harder it is to go faster."
There is only so much a non-aero, street car is going to be able to do.
But I think we should point out (and I'm a huge Mustang fan boy), I wonder what the C7 Z51 would have done on the same tires the GT PP2 and GT350R wear.
Rodan
Dork
10/31/19 8:49 a.m.
In reply to z31maniac :
C7 Grand Sport went 2:47.1 at Lightning Lap... not sure if that comes on Cup 2s, but it's basically Z51 power with more grip.
STM317
UltraDork
10/31/19 9:05 a.m.
In reply to z31maniac :
That's fair. Tires are a huge deal. Looks like the PP2 Mustang wears 305 Michelin Sport Cup 2 and the Vette Z51 typically got 245/285 Michelin Super Sports. So the Mustang has more contact patch and a more aggressive tire.
But the Z51 is also 3400lbs and 50/50 weight balance with alower CoD, while the Mustang PP2 is 3800lbs and 55/45. The Mustang is probably working harder to set that time, but it's still setting it.
Not saying one is better than the other, simply that if you had 45-60k to spend on a new car, they're pretty comparable performance/$. And if you go up in price, they'll probably remain pretty similar performance/$.
Also remember the carbon fiber track pack option on this new Mustang - the wheels alone were reported to save roughly 100 pounds of weight. With the Recaros dropping a lot more (and I think a rear seat delete) it's "down" to 4080lbs*. Still overweight, but better. So that version is still 400lbs heavier than the C8, yes, but it has better brakes, much wider/stickier tires, and a 200+ horsepower advantage. It being faster than the C8 on a track is quite believable.
Another review, this one describes it as a supercar.
https://www.detroitnews.com/story/opinion/columnists/henry-payne/2019/10/31/review-2020-mustang-gt-500-baddest-and-best-pony-car-ever/2482930001/
*swapping out the factory exhaust with multiple modes for a nice aftermarket cat-back would drop that another 50+lbs. Honestly getting this car under 4,000lbs wouldn't be too hard. My exhaust dropped 52lbs off the back of my car and this new one has some push button multi-mode exhaust that just has to be heavy.
infinitenexus said:
getting this car under 4,000 lbs wouldn't be too hard
Still trying to wrap my head around a performance/track car that owners would have to pull parts off of to get it under 4,000 lbs.
I believe the glowing reviews. I know one of the tire development test drivers and his description of it around VIR was "scary fast."
I'd take this over a C8 because I'm a card-carrying Mustang Fanboi, but also because it somehow seems more special than the C8.
nderwater said:
infinitenexus said:
getting this car under 4,000 lbs wouldn't be too hard
Still trying to wrap my head around a performance/track car that owners would have to pull parts off of to get it under 4,000 lbs.
Agree completely. Cars are just getting heavy these days.
infinitenexus said:
Also remember the carbon fiber track pack option on this new Mustang - the wheels alone were reported to save roughly 100 pounds of weight. With the Recaros dropping a lot more (and I think a rear seat delete) it's "down" to 4080lbs*. Still overweight, but better. So that version is still 400lbs heavier than the C8, yes, but it has better brakes, much wider/stickier tires, and a 200+ horsepower advantage. It being faster than the C8 on a track is quite believable.
Another review, this one describes it as a supercar.
https://www.detroitnews.com/story/opinion/columnists/henry-payne/2019/10/31/review-2020-mustang-gt-500-baddest-and-best-pony-car-ever/2482930001/
*swapping out the factory exhaust with multiple modes for a nice aftermarket cat-back would drop that another 50+lbs. Honestly getting this car under 4,000lbs wouldn't be too hard. My exhaust dropped 52lbs off the back of my car and this new one has some push button multi-mode exhaust that just has to be heavy.
The non "track pack" wheels are 42 lbs without tires? That seems like a lot.
"Carbon Revolution says both GT350R and GT500 wheels weigh the same 17 pounds."
https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a29597472/ford-mustang-2020-shelby-gt500-gt350r-carbon-wheels/
I can't remember where I read it, but somewhere a few months ago they spoke of the track pack wheels saving 100lbs total. Let me see if I can find it.
Dave M
HalfDork
10/31/19 12:55 p.m.
nderwater said:
infinitenexus said:
getting this car under 4,000 lbs wouldn't be too hard
Still trying to wrap my head around a performance/track car that owners would have to pull parts off of to get it under 4,000 lbs.
I mean, the new 911 is like 3400 lbs right? Everything that's not a Miata is too heavy these days!
z31maniac said:
The non "track pack" wheels are 42 lbs without tires? That seems like a lot.
"Carbon Revolution says both GT350R and GT500 wheels weigh the same 17 pounds."
https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a29597472/ford-mustang-2020-shelby-gt500-gt350r-carbon-wheels/
Okay I don't know where I got 100lbs from. I dug around a little, and Ford says the carbon wheels save a total of 60 pounds.
Dave M said:
nderwater said:
infinitenexus said:
getting this car under 4,000 lbs wouldn't be too hard
Still trying to wrap my head around a performance/track car that owners would have to pull parts off of to get it under 4,000 lbs.
I mean, the new 911 is like 3400 lbs right? Everything that's not a Miata is too heavy these days!
Yet we're getting faster and safer at the same time. LoL
How's the heat soak on one of these? If it's like past factory supercharged Mustangs everything on the track is going to pass it after a few laps as heat soak sends it into limp mode.
I haven't heard it mentioned in any articles or reviews. Instead they talk about how good the heat extraction is, it extracts enough heat to heat 12 homes or something. I'll wait until someone truly tracks it though.
mainlandboy said:
Doug DeMuro has his review up:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WjTpkAXXM7c
A car review, of a track car, just being driven on the highway and talking about steering precision and such? Seems kind of strange.
Did you notice he wasn't driving the Carbon Fiber Track Package car on the highway either?
In reply to z31maniac :
His reviews are kinda annoying.
Dave M
HalfDork
10/31/19 8:26 p.m.
yupididit said:
In reply to z31maniac :
His reviews are kinda annoying.
Understatement of the century
infinitenexus said:
I haven't heard it mentioned in any articles or reviews. Instead they talk about how good the heat extraction is, it extracts enough heat to heat 12 homes or something. I'll wait until someone truly tracks it though.
This reminds me of my belief that all cars should have PTOs
Dave M
HalfDork
11/1/19 10:11 a.m.
bcp2011 said:
Everything that's not a Miata is too heavy these days!
Not the twins!!
400 lbs heavier, 20 HP more, same torques....advantage Miata!
Dave M said:
bcp2011 said:
Everything that's not a Miata is too heavy these days!
Not the twins!!
400 lbs heavier, 20 HP more, same torques....advantage Miata!
No drop top. Game set and match Miata!
Dave M
HalfDork
11/1/19 10:23 a.m.
In reply to Adrian_Thompson :
I don't even own a ND, but it's the best drop top design ever!
Dave M said:
yupididit said:
In reply to z31maniac :
His reviews are kinda annoying.
Understatement of the century
So it wasn't just me than. At least now I know I don't need watch anymore of his stuff.
There are a lot of terrible youtube car reviewers out there. I will be very interested to see how this pig does at lightning lap 2020. As much as I like the new Mustangs the GT350 is the only one I'd buy. I'd probably prefer a C7 grand sport. I'd probably prefer an 06-08 Cayman S to both of them, and I'd very likely prefer a 525 hp LS powered ND to any of them, and lap times wouldn't be the deciding factor, fun per $$$ would be.
