In reply to Vigo :
The Fiesta was so tall that it was tippy.... it's basically a small truck. You sit on it, not in it. Mazda, however, is doing a bang-up job of selling NDs. Mazda is small so they can do that. Ford can't, Ford wants to make something that sells in Ford numbers, or they need to charge GT500 money to justify its existence.
Everybody I've known who experienced a 10 second car, wanted a 9 second car. 
Current crash regulations mean you will never see a 2000lb car for sale in the US again.
16" front rotors and 6 piston calipers... that might almost be enough brakes. Maybe. And on a Mustang? Wow. My 2 ton car has 14.2" rotors and 6 piston calipers and I consider them to be almost up to the task. It amuses me some that the rotors on my current hooptie are bigger than the wheels that were on my first 2 hoopties...
Oh and as for dismissing the monster mustang cuz it is so dang heavy, well, I have firsthand experience in the notion that if you throw enough spring and damper rate, and enough tire at it, you can get it to go round corners. Throw enough brake at it and you can even get it to stop. Yes, all these things would be ever so much easier if you cut the weight in half. But in today's regulatory climate that is prettymuch impossible for a 4seat car to achieve. Although I question whether any mustang is rly a 4seat car. The ones we looked at, ain't no way a normal human fits back there with, like, legroom.
freetors said:I really don't even car about these kind of things anymore. I would honestly be way more impressed if Ford (or any carmaker) came out with a 2000 pound, 200 ish hp car.
ND Miata is not far off that mark.
I'm a fan of lightweight cars myself, but I remember how Terry Fair set a bunch of track records in his 2011 Mustang, usually at 3800-3900lbs. Huge tires and brakes go a long way. I wonder how much the GT500 will weigh in fully gutted race mode?
Like Bill Cosby said, I need a car that does 180 or better to get to work.
A lot of race track development was done on this car. The test driver for the Michelin tire on this car (the same guy who did the GT350 and Ford GT programs) told me it was scary fast on the track. I can't wait to see first drive reviews.
I think it's competition is more the ZL1 with 650hp and the C7/C8 than the hellcat, etc. All sorts of heavy cars are shockingly fast and modern monster performance machines have drastically reduced the detrimental aspects of such weight. It seems predictable that people are whining about the weight.
Where was the thread on the newly announced Alpine A110S?
I don't think there will be any regulation. Very few old dudes buy these cars. Look at sports bikes. Young guys have been buying utterly psychotic bikes and hurting themselves for a long time....
Snrub said:I think it's competition is more the ZL1 with 650hp and the C7/C8 than the hellcat, etc. All sorts of heavy cars are shockingly fast and modern monster performance machines have drastically reduced the detrimental aspects of such weight. It seems predictable that people are whining about the weight.
Where was the thread on the newly announced Alpine A110S?
Have you driven many of these cars? Yes they are fast. Yes they are surprisingly controllable thanks to modern tech. But you feel that weight still. The cars are big, heavy, and feel dull compared to lighter less powerful cars.
In my experience 3000 lbs or less with 300-400 hp is my personal sweet spot with a good suspension. These cars are fun to drive. If you want to track them you can typically remove 200-300 lbs in luxury and interior bits too.
If you want to burn up tires or drag race, and don’t care about money then the GT500 and Hellcat, ZL-1 etc are king..... until the new best overpriced thing comes out. It’s always been this way.
I don't know how much the GT350 weighs, but I got a ridealong in one of those on an autocross course and the handling/grip level was unbelievable...of course I don't have much to compare it to, but to my ignorant senses, it didn't feel at all like a heavy car.
3760 pounds. Good suspension and 305 wide tires go a long way! But imagine if they could take that package and do it with 3300lbs! Maybe if the coyote engine wasn't so dang large, they could shrink the wntire car just a tiny bit, enough to cut maybe 100 pounds or so off while still being able to fit huge tires on it.
I was just at the bike store and the owner tossed me the keys to his '19 GT350 and said "go." So I did. I only drove it a couple miles on public roads but good lord, that's as close to religion as I've come in a loooong time. It had 1000 miles on it. The sport setting on the exhaust is like angels singing. It's got the Brembo package and the brakes are strong enough it's almost a hazard on the street. Just.....wow. I told him when he sells it in 3 years let me know, and I'm dead serious.
also, I now have to buy loud exhaust for my S197.
I would highly recommend the MBRP exhaust. It's what I have on my 2012 GT. It's one of the least expensive ones, the quality is superb, and it sounds great. I also have a BBK x pipe, and together there's no drone.
TIL that three year old GT350s are still $50k cars.
Appears they lost some torque from the 13/14 gt500.
I'm sure this thing will handle well. Yes I love a light car and as someone mentioned earlier closer to 3000 and 300-400 hp is also what I would consider a nice sweet spot, buy after seeing what the new ZL1 can do, with pretty much the same weight, I'm not to worried about it. There was a lightning lap or other similar track comparo from one of the mags that the ZL1 ran pretty much the same time as the new ford GT
Knurled. said:TIL that three year old GT350s are still $50k cars.
yeah until the next gen motors come out for the GT and surpasses the performance, I wouldn't expect the prices to fall a lot.
AnthonyGS said:Have you driven many of these cars? Yes they are fast. Yes they are surprisingly controllable thanks to modern tech. But you feel that weight still. The cars are big, heavy, and feel dull compared to lighter less powerful cars.
Our ZL1 is certainly very different from our NA Miata, but I can tell you with some certainty that there is nothing dull about it. 
The ZL1 is the target for the GT500... I'm very interested to see how good it is around a track, because the ZL1 is very good indeed. Price will be an issue, though... looking at GT350 pricing, and ADM. If you want a 2020 GT500, you're probably going to pay $100k...
The challenger is now a 12 year old platform. It's an old car, on an old suspension, with an old transmission. New engine is cool, but designing new cars is cool too. The age of the dodge fleet is ridiculous now.
Comparing the gt500 to any dodge is insulting.
Prices were just released. The base price of the GT500, with destination and gas guzzler fees, is $73,995. Add in 18 grand for the carbon fiber performance package, and apparently 10 grand for the over the top stripes, and you've got a 6 figure Mustang.
Opti said:Appears they lost some torque from the 13/14 gt500.
They give up a fair bit of displacement to the old model.
One gripe about this car: That stupid berkeleying rotary dial shift knob. Manufacturers, stop that E36 M3.
NickD said:One gripe about this car: That stupid berkeleying rotary dial shift knob. Manufacturers, stop that E36 M3.
Actually, now that I've been using it in my Fusion for a few months..... yeah, it's stupid. I'm used to it, but it's in no way an improvement over a good, old-fashioned lever.
nderwater said:I never thought I'd see muscle cars with 700-900 horsepower straight off the showroom floor. Who will be first to 1,000 hp?!!
Makes you wonder how high those numbers will go before insurance/regulation/market/darwin forces take over.
FTFY
Snrub said:I think it's competition is more the ZL1 with 650hp and the C7/C8 than the hellcat, etc. All sorts of heavy cars are shockingly fast and modern monster performance machines have drastically reduced the detrimental aspects of such weight. It seems predictable that people are whining about the weight.
Where was the thread on the newly announced Alpine A110S?
I don't think there will be any regulation. Very few old dudes buy these cars. Look at sports bikes. Young guys have been buying utterly psychotic bikes and hurting themselves for a long time....
Yep. 14 years ago, I ran an 11.21 @121 mph at Tulsa International Raceway. First try, on a 600cc sport bike.
Do the typical -1/+2 gearing change, strap the front, you can run 9s on a $15k 1000cc sportbike.
But I have lost that specifc madness it takes to ride a sportbike these days. I would no longer do something like I have in the past, a friend gave me the keys to his R1 (I had an R6)..............it's a pretty insane feeling to be on a highway in the middle on nowhere, pegged on the rev limiter in 6th on 1000cc sportbike.
This body style had been trying in one fashion or another to ape the ‘68 to ‘70 since 2005. When will they try and mimic the Fox? That’s what I want to see. Lots of guys my age (49) think of an ‘86 GT when we think of good times and Mustangs. At some point in the next few years if nothing changes, watch for it to square up and get Foxy.
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