$20XX Challenge (total/actual budget)

The more I read about the challenge, the cars, and the stories of the teams, the more I want to give it a go. I've casually pitched the idea to a few friends, and I know it wouldn't take too much to bring this idea from talking to wrenching. The car, the parts, the build, the paintjob, the driving, the logistics....that's all easy stuff. My main question at this point is about realistic budgets. What does a Challenge Campaign actually cost?

I know the car and go-fast parts can only total $20XX, but once you factor in all the safety gear, tires, transport, spare parts, logistics, etc...what sort of money does an average team end up spending?

Pretty much all you're going to get by with on "safety gear" is a seatbelt and a window net. Though I think they added something about a bolt in bar. Check the rules. "Spare parts" ??? Anything that goes on the car goes in the budget, tires included. GRM block hotel rate is $55-$60 per night IIRC. Gas is total miles from where you live to Gainesville X2 divided by whatever mileage you get X whatever gas costs per gallon.

MrMook wrote: The more I read about the challenge, the cars, and the stories of the teams, the more I want to give it a go. I've casually pitched the idea to a few friends, and I know it wouldn't take too much to bring this idea from talking to wrenching. The car, the parts, the build, the paintjob, the driving, the logistics....that's all easy stuff. My main question at this point is about realistic budgets. What does a Challenge Campaign actually cost? I know the car and go-fast parts can only total $20XX, but once you factor in all the safety gear, tires, transport, spare parts, logistics, etc...what sort of money does an average team end up spending?

Safety gear typically just consists of a helmet, so that's like... $150 or less.

Tires are included in budget.

How long of a drive to the Challenge is it for you? Really, spare parts, gas to get there and back, entry fee, and lodging for the event is all you really need to account for.

I'm looking at $3000 total budget. (Well, mine is more like $4000 due to special circumstances involving a theft.)

Of course, i haven't actually made it there yet, so some veterans may very well shoot me out of the water.

I would believe someone if they said 6-7k for all costs involved.

poopshovel wrote: Pretty much all you're going to get by with on "safety gear" is a seatbelt and a window net. Though I think they added something about a bolt in bar. Check the rules. "Spare parts" ??? Anything that goes on the car goes in the budget, tires included. GRM block hotel rate is $55-$60 per night IIRC. Gas is total miles from where you live to Gainesville X2 divided by whatever mileage you get X whatever gas costs per gallon.

Well, spare parts...

For instance, i'll probably bring a spare transmission. Showing up with one transmission on the car, then blowing it up on day one, swapping to good used transmission that night = same budget.

At least, how i understand it. Budget is parts ON the car, doesn't include everything sitting in your trailer waiting to go on if something breaks, right?

I guess I should re-read the rules before I post. I was under the impression that cages and fuel cells were required, but maybe I'm mixing up the Challenge with other budget-races like LeMons and Chumpcar.

MrMook wrote: I guess I should re-read the rules before I post. I was under the impression that cages and fuel cells were required, but maybe I'm mixing up the Challenge with other budget-races like LeMons and Chumpcar.

You need a cage if you're going to be going REALLY fast on the drag strip...

The way I see it the highest possible amount you could spend is something like this:

$2010 max on actual car and parts $500 max replacing OEM brake parts ("Rubber or steel brake lines, master cylinders, rotors, drums, brake cylinders, calipers and brake pad linings may be replaced with new stock pieces." - Rules) $1500 max on a pro-built bolt-in cage (if you went this route - it is legal in the rules, but most people build their own) $150 max for new fancy harness $200 on other allowed safety equip if you choose (fire system, window nets, etc...) $500 on spare parts

$300 on entry fees (car + 2 additional drivers/banquet tickets)

Sub Total = ~ $5500

You should also expect to spend some money on tools that you don't have and supplies like saw blades, cut-off wheels, sandpaper, whatever.

Depending on how well you're already set up, you could spend almost nothing on this, or you could spend many hundreds of dollars.

Max cost of consumables/new tools: $1000 ?

Cost of travel is going to be your gas, hotel, and any vehicle rental. I suppose you could spend a ton of money here, but I think $1000 is a reasonable maximum even for folks going cross-country.

Total = ~$7500

That said I don't think anyone actually spends anywhere near this much, but that's about the highest you possibly could go within the limits of the rules and reason. If you want the bare minimum of safety equipment, and build your own cage/don't need a cage, if you have a good shop to start with and can travel cheap then you'd probably be looking at around $3000-$3500 start to finish, all expenses included for a very fast car. You can always spend less though.

I think at Wreck Racing we might spend closer to $4500 on a first-year car because our travel costs are high (bringing down a ton of students, and we go through a lot of consumable items, and need a cage since we run a convertible). However, once you build the car, the year-to-year changes are pretty minimal in cost, so you can keep changing the car and going back for only a few hundred.

Ranger50 wrote: I would believe someone if they said 6-7k for all costs involved.

Good estimate

It really does not have to cost too much out of pocket on non-car expenditures.

Registration / event fees are really low at $150ish? for one person and something like $65 each additional driver

All you need (unless you are an insanely fast rookie) is a helmet to be safe. There is nothing going on there that is close to dangerous in an average vehicle.

Leaving a little room in your challenge budget for repairs on the fly is a good idea. Bringing common failure point replacement parts for your car makes sense but I wouldn't go overboard, better to drive within yourself...

Obviously, you can estimate your gas expenses for getting there and back. Plan on spending $50 if you want to buy race fuel at the track, last year they had 5 gallon drums of 103 or 113 available iirc.

I think the host hotel was around $85/ night with the group discount. Pretty nice place except for being 1/2 hour drive from the track.

Food can be simple depending on your tastes. Breakfast at the hotel is included and actually a decent spread. Most evenings GRM provided beer and pizza at some point and the banquet food was excellent. I got by on granola bars and the snack bar at the track to supplement. I would bring 2 cases of water for personal consumption. Add appropriate amounts of beer and liquor if you desire.

Any kind of bribe for the judges at the concours wouldn't count in your car budget but could be costly or very cheap. I personally do not like the idea very much but some people go all out here...

I'm working on a plan for a two man team and I think that probably means only about $1k each in expenses beyond the car. I can easily see how many people spend a lot more depending on variables like specific safety gear, new tools, extra hotels along the way and such.

The great thing about this event is that you can do it your own way, and the variety of entrants really does cover the entire spectrum...

JohnyHachi6 wrote:

Ranger50 wrote: I would believe someone if they said 6-7k for all costs involved.

Good estimate

I would believe that some teams spend even more then that on the effort... but some teams have dozens of members, others are essentially professional race car builders and some folks bring their entire family along too.

I think the average 'team' of a few people who already own common tools would be a lot less for a decent showing.

JohnyHachi6 wrote: If you want the bare minimum of safety equipment, and build your own cage/don't need a cage, if you have a good shop to start with and can travel cheap then you'd probably be looking at around $3000-$3500 start to finish, all expenses included for a very fast car. You can always spend less though.

I think this is a pretty good estimate for a small team with modest goals and a decent arsenal of equipment at their disposal. Plenty of variables could raise this amount a by bit but there is no need to spend a ton if you prefer to be thrifty

Last year I spent more much money on fine dining to and from the event, making it a vacation trip too, then on my car and fees.

92CelicaHalfTrac wrote:

poopshovel wrote: Pretty much all you're going to get by with on "safety gear" is a seatbelt and a window net. Though I think they added something about a bolt in bar. Check the rules. "Spare parts" ??? Anything that goes on the car goes in the budget, tires included. GRM block hotel rate is $55-$60 per night IIRC. Gas is total miles from where you live to Gainesville X2 divided by whatever mileage you get X whatever gas costs per gallon.

Well, spare parts... For instance, i'll probably bring a spare transmission. Showing up with one transmission on the car, then blowing it up on day one, swapping to good used transmission that night = same budget. At least, how i understand it. Budget is parts ON the car, doesn't include everything sitting in your trailer waiting to go on if something breaks, right?

You can have as much on the trailer as you want if something breaks, but if it goes on the car during the event, it goes in the budget. If you use a part during the event, and it breaks, that stays in the budget. If you replace that part, then continue in the event, you then used that part too. That would also then count.

Rule #15:

15.All parts used at the event (including multiple sets of tires) shall be part of that $2011 budget.

The past few years, we've spent about $6K a year on our Challenge program. Most of that is on tooling and consumables since we're a new team getting a shop furnished, etc.

Pat wrote:

92CelicaHalfTrac wrote:

poopshovel wrote: Pretty much all you're going to get by with on "safety gear" is a seatbelt and a window net. Though I think they added something about a bolt in bar. Check the rules. "Spare parts" ??? Anything that goes on the car goes in the budget, tires included. GRM block hotel rate is $55-$60 per night IIRC. Gas is total miles from where you live to Gainesville X2 divided by whatever mileage you get X whatever gas costs per gallon.

Well, spare parts... For instance, i'll probably bring a spare transmission. Showing up with one transmission on the car, then blowing it up on day one, swapping to good used transmission that night = same budget. At least, how i understand it. Budget is parts ON the car, doesn't include everything sitting in your trailer waiting to go on if something breaks, right?

You can have as much on the trailer as you want if something breaks, but if it goes on the car during the event, it goes in the budget. If you use a part during the event, and it breaks, that stays in the budget. If you replace that part, then continue in the event, you then used that part too. That would also then count. Rule #15: 15.All parts used at the event (including multiple sets of tires) shall be part of that $2011 budget.

Oh. That kindof sucks. Especially since i'll have driven 20k miles on this transmission/car before it even shows up at the Challenge.

Not enough budget left for another $500 transmission.

But in the meantime, if the transmission goes BEFORE the challenge, i can replace at no budget hit, because it worked 20k miles ago when i bought it?

On the cheap end of the scale buy a $500 or $1000 car (perhaps in Gainesville). Flog it. Enjoy the experience. If you want to be more competitive I think plan on 4k +.

92CelicaHalfTrac wrote: But in the meantime, if the transmission goes BEFORE the challenge, i can replace at no budget hit, because it worked 20k miles ago when i bought it?

That is how I would play it, but I wouldn't have proposed it here on the boards for all to see.

Ranger50 wrote: I would believe someone if they said 6-7k for all costs involved if they stayed in the El Presidente suite and picked up the bar tab for all challengers for one night .

FTFY.

in 2008 i dollied my v8 944 from Detroit, about 2500 miles round trip. averaged 15 mpg @ $3/gal, so $500 on gas. event fee $175 for car plus two people. car was under budget so let's call it $2000. no spares. 3 nights hotel split with another person ~ $200. $50 on race fuel at the track. figure another $200 on food and $100 on beverages and sunblock. total $3225.

The price is all dependant. My car came in tight on the budget ($1989 I think) but in actuality cost me around $1400 to build. I had parts in my garage or on parts cars that I used that I already owned and did not have another use for. I had a few items donated to me by buddies and relatives all of which had to go into the budget at fair market value. Now if you figure the cost of hauling the car from Ohio, trailer repairs on the roadside, lodging, etc. my budget probably came closer to $2500 actually spent.

Ranger50 wrote:

92CelicaHalfTrac wrote: But in the meantime, if the transmission goes BEFORE the challenge, i can replace at no budget hit, because it worked 20k miles ago when i bought it?

That is how I would play it, but I wouldn't have proposed it here on the boards for all to see.

yes. if it worked when you bought the car and you drove 20k miles on it and broke it before the challenge, and you replaced it with one that is the same FMV -- ie you didn't replace a used 944 open diff transaxle with a rebuilt 951 LSD transaxle for example -- then there would be no budget hit.

parts replacements like this can lead to a slippery slope and perhaps even start grumblings of budget shenanigans. remember the following and you'll be fine:

• the most expensive prize is a set of tires.
• you are responsible for reporting your budget
• you only have to get caught lying once to be forever known as a liar

AngryCorvair wrote:

Ranger50 wrote:

92CelicaHalfTrac wrote: But in the meantime, if the transmission goes BEFORE the challenge, i can replace at no budget hit, because it worked 20k miles ago when i bought it?

That is how I would play it, but I wouldn't have proposed it here on the boards for all to see.

yes. if it worked when you bought the car and you drove 20k miles on it and broke it before the challenge, and you replaced it with one that is the same FMV -- ie you didn't replace a used 944 open diff transaxle with a rebuilt 951 LSD transaxle for example -- then there would be no budget hit. parts replacements like this can lead to a slippery slope and perhaps even start grumblings of budget shenanigans. remember the following and you'll be fine: - the most expensive prize is a set of tires. - *you* are responsible for reporting *your* budget - you only have to get caught lying once to be forever known as a liar

Ok, cool, so i'm not crazy. Maintenance so long as the replacement part isn't an upgrade need not be counted. (Or at least, advertised) Changing oil, replacing seals that failed since them, etc are all good.

Worth mentioning that i AM budgeting the two seals that were bad when i bought the car that i replaced immediately, for example.

I can understand replacing a trans at the challenge going towards budget if it happens to pick THAT particular weekend to fail.

Ranger50 wrote:

92CelicaHalfTrac wrote: But in the meantime, if the transmission goes BEFORE the challenge, i can replace at no budget hit, because it worked 20k miles ago when i bought it?

That is how I would play it, but I wouldn't have proposed it here on the boards for all to see.

Eh, no secrets here. It'd be simple to find any work i've done due to multiple build threads scattered around the internet whether i posted it here or not. Would rather air it out in the open where the people that matter can see it.

Not like i'd be replacing with a brand new factory unit with an aftermarket LSD anyways. Nor are any different gear sets available.

I would add, for the private teams, that you are getting an awesome car out of the process too, so don't let the price tag scare you too much.

For instance, we might have spent more than $2010 to build the miata and compete (including all the tools, spare parts, cage, travel, etc...) but we now have an amazing car that runs 12s in the 1/4 mile and is ultra-fast in an auto-x. If you were to go out and buy something like that it would cost a lot more than $2010.

I got about 400$ into the car so far, and i got a tent. Walmart still lets you sleep in the parking lots... right? I almost wonder if I could do ALL of challenge under a g-bar.

mndsm wrote: I almost wonder if I could do ALL of challenge under a g-bar.

It's definitely possible. You could even do well if you found a good deal on the right car.