225k Mile Tundra vs The Devil You Know Tow Vehicle Showdown

I have a 2001 Silverado 2500HD with the 8.1/Allison combo which is overkill for everything I tow, but also has 270k miles and historically seems to love to break little stuff at inopportune times.  I found this Tundra on marketplace and am considering it as a replacement since the price seems about as reasonable as they get, and it's the 5.7/longbed/4x4 combo I'd want.  I like and trust Toyota more than GM but this might just be another beat up quarter million mile truck which will give me the same problems, hard to tell.  I'm planning on doing a lot of towing next year, somebody sway my opinion please.  Image of said Tundra:

I don't know...  A lot of my co-workers over the years have owned Toyota/Lexus cars and by their experiences I'm not sure Toyota reliability is what it used to be. Especially Lexus - holy cow those were in the shop for warranty work a lot.

One advantage of the Chevy - if you break down in the middle of nowhere, finding parts will be easier (and likely much cheaper) than if the 15 year old Toyota breaks down. 

Ian F (Forum Supporter) said:

One advantage of the Chevy - if you break down in the middle of nowhere, finding parts will be easier (and likely much cheaper) than if the 15 year old Toyota breaks down. 

Unless it's a radiator. 

In reply to Ian F (Forum Supporter) :

We disproved that theory when Evan and Brian had to cram the wrong radiator into the truck and we had to ziptie a universal trans cooler to the grille to make it home from SOFR:

So far trans cooler lines have also proven to be 2 year only parts, and the steering box was a weird "it fits but isn't quite the same" deal.  I think the Tundra hasn't had any major mechanical changes for about 15yrs but I could be wrong.

In reply to EvanB :

Perhaps...

When dealing with 15+ year old trucks, you're not buying a truck so much as you're buying the previous owner's maintenance habits. I've know a lot of Toyota owners who treat vehicles literally like appliances and do the absolute minimum of maintenance.  My concern about this particular truck is the list of needs, which don't seem too bad, but these might be "last straw" items in a long list of issues. I've sold a few vehicles for similar reasons. 

Maybe it's because the last couple of older trucks I've bought have been needy nightmares (despite being lauded for reliability: a 12V Cummins and a 7.3 IDI) that I'm a little on the cautious side. 

While I totally understand the desire to tread that delicate line between reliability and affordability, if former is near the top of the list of needs then the latter needs to give a bit.  And I'd consider a 10 year old truck to be about as old as I would risk unless the maintenance records are rock-solid.  Considering the minimal inspection requirements in NJ, any truck from that state is suspect in my eyes.

Ian F (Forum Supporter) said:

One advantage of the Chevy - if you break down in the middle of nowhere, finding parts will be easier (and likely much cheaper) than if the 15 year old Toyota breaks down. 

My Buddy and I were four wheeling in his '73 Chevrolet Truck (figure it was 1981?) when he got stuck in a mud hole and just floored it to power out of  the mud.   Boom.  Blew the upper radiator hose.   

Walked about a block over to some weird drug store that had car parts, bought the correct hose, installed it, then we went home.

I was amazed as you're not finding Datsun 310GX parts at a drug store.  

Go to the Toyota website.

Find the upper tab for "owners" 

Set up username and password 

Put in the Toyota VIN and see all dealer service history, for free! 

Toyotas can get rusty I would check out the condition of the underside and the service records John mentioned.  On the rust topic, something as big as the Tundra likely didn't live inside a garage  The sub frame on our '06 Rav4 was completely rotted out (it's spent its entire life in CT and has never been garaged for any meaningful time), and I wish I had take a picture of the backside of the rear knuckle before I started braking chunks of rust off.  And the rear backing plate literally disintegrated in my hands yesterday when I took the hub off.  Literally every part of the subframe job has been a huge pain due to the overall rustiness of the vehicle (bolts snapping, driveshaft rusted to the coupler, bolts rusted inside bushings.  I don't know how many (if any) pieces I'm going to be able to reuse, which will definitely add to the cost of the job.

What's the list look like on the current truck?  I generally fall into the devil you know camp (as proven by the work above), but I've also recently rehabbed a 2017 Odyssey bought a year ago with 193k on it (and no service records) to the point where I trusted it to take it on a family vacation down to FL (the alternator died on our second day down there).  But I did a ton of prep prior to that, which might be similar list to what you'd be undertaking on the new truck to ensure it's a reliable tow rig:

- Timing belt/water pump (not sure if the Tundra is a belt or chain)

- Radiator/expansion tank/thermostat/hoses & clamps/fresh coolant

- Transmission fluid changes (3x), replace OEM transmission filter, add aftermarket transmission cooler, 2 new factory ATF lines (both were leaking)

- Valve cover gaskets (they were leaking), spool valve gasket (was also leaking & was ultimately what killed the alternator), valve adjustment

- New serpentine belt and pulleys

- New rear shocks, new spring bushings, AirLift airbags in back

- Replaced passenger side wheel bearing, drive axle, and drive axle seal (it was leaking)

- Installed roof rack and crossbars

- New tires

- New brake fluid

- Alternator and battery (failed while on vacation - I had a local dealer take care of it)

Now that the thrash of the past year is over, it's in a much better spot.  There's still odds and ends and regular maintenance that needs to get taken care of, but hopefully the volume of work remains low.

Edit: here's the back of the knuckle after spending 15 minutes knocking rust off: 

My Sequoia, which has the same frame and drivetrain- rolled over 222k today and runs fantastically. It's going to need its first a/c compressor soon because it's getting noisy but other than that it runs amazingly well. It was well maintained when it was with the original owner but in 25k miles for me it's been maintenance free other than oil and fuel (17mpg). They love Michelin tires and the turning radius will blow your mind. 

Buy the previous owner. 

In reply to Datsun310Guy :

Not still being '81, ya ain't gonna find that chebby hose, either!

Was definitely a real advantage back then... now it's just being repeated 'caus it was used to be true, and has been repeated so many times!

grover said:

My Sequoia, which has the same frame and drivetrain- rolled over 222k today and runs fantastically. It's going to need its first a/c compressor soon because it's getting noisy but other than that it runs amazingly well. It was well maintained when it was with the original owner but in 25k miles for me it's been maintenance free other than oil and fuel (17mpg). They love Michelin tires and the turning radius will blow your mind. 

I told Chris earlier that my 2010 Sequoia, which was bought in the same general area (Jersey) has almost no notable rust on it (or on the frame). The brake dust shields were toast up front, but that's about it.  And it's at like 170k.

The turning radius is A-MAZ-ING. Like, parking in a crowded supermarket parking lot is no harder than in my GTI. It's gotta be 6 feet tighter turn radius than even my old Sequoia, which was already pretty decent. Also excellent for backing the trailer on hard cuts :)

In reply to dj06482 (Forum Supporter) :

Everything rusts... not just Toyota ... if your unfortunate enough to have to or want to live in the rust belt. 
I have a low miles 07 highlander that has cost a fortune in maint. But that's not really related. 
my 04 tundra was essentially maint. free. But that's not really relavent either. 
To \_ _/, if towing a lot the MPG difference will not hurt as much as driving that 3/4 ton around when not towing. Although when the toyo "upgraded" to the thirsty big V8 ILO the 4.7, that might not be as much difference 

The Tundras are nice.  My sister just bought one.  They did have some of the frame rot issues like the Tacos, but not as bad.

8.1L = 330hp at 4200 and 450tq at 3200 (which, if you think about it is pretty pathetic for that much displacement)
5.7L in the Tundra = 381hp at 5600 and 401tq at 3600

I think that speaks volumes for the Toyota that they can get that kind of torque at that RPM from 70% the displacement.  In the power/torque department I think you're fine with either.  I can't speak to the Tundra's transmission, but I find it hard to believe that it is more bulletproof than the Allison.

That is considered normal rust for 15 year old Minnesota daily driver cars/trucks unless washed on a weekly basis during the winter.

In reply to Curtis73 (Forum Supporter) :

The 8.1L is fairly tuned down in the pickups. The difference is the 8.1L has 400 lb/ft at 1000 rpms and has a very broad flat torque curve. The Tundra 5.7L does pull pretty good, but much like the 5.7 Hemi in my Ram, most of the power is higher up in the rpm range.

To the OP, unless you are towing heavy trailers, the Toyota should tow quite well. I tend to favor the devil you know over the unknown one.  I am with Curtis on the Allison being the stronger transmission. I don't have much experience with the Tundra transmission though.

Id keep the GM. I will say I am a GM guy so I am a little biased, but my personal experience would line up with it.

First its the devil you know vs an unknown, and as mentioned earlier at 225K miles its not necessarily the truck its the previous owners habits.

The 3UR in the tundra is generally reliable but I have seen some timing issues which are not inexpensive to repair. Rack and pinions, starters and alternators are all bigger jobs than they should be. I believe in the early days rack and pinion was recommended as an engine out service, they're are some ways around it so maybe the process has changed by now.
 

With a GMT800 you have probably some of the best parts availability, service and repairs are simple, it has a massive under stressed simple engine, and a bullet proof trans and rear.

When buying a truck for truck things I think there is something to be said for simplicity.

I honestly think you already know the answer.  Facts- 

-  You trust Toyota more than GM as a brand, personally. 

- You have a bad taste in your mouth with your current 'devil'. 

- You will be anxious/leery/edgy any time you tow with said current 'devil', because you know how it hath scorned you in the past. 

If I were in your shoes in the above circumstances, I'd be buying the Tundra.  Even if it's a somewhat basketcase, it can't be a ton worse than the one that's already bitten you.  Peace of mind sometimes requires a change of scenery. 

In reply to golfduke :

You pretty much nailed it- the thing stopping me is a solid helping of "what if I've fixed everything that's going to break for the next 50k miles and I'm throwing that away" which nobody really can answer.

In reply to ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ :

You're not going to lose money out of the deal. whatever breaks with it, isn't that terrible or expensive to replace. If/when you want to sell it, you get to experience the better side of the toyota markup. I owned my 4runner for 6 years, put 140k on it, and sold it for 2k less than I paid. My 4.7 sequoia has turned into one of the most reliable vehicles I've owned. I really believe 2000's were for the most part, the golden years for toyota engineering. 

Since its still for sale after a week, I think he's a little overpriced on it. Id shoot for 6-6500 and see if it works. 

¯\_(ツ)_/¯ said:

In reply to golfduke :

You pretty much nailed it- the thing stopping me is a solid helping of "what if I've fixed everything that's going to break for the next 50k miles and I'm throwing that away" which nobody really can answer.

...but equally as important-  What if you haven't???

In reply to golfduke :

I didn't know my internal dialogue had a GRM account!

¯\_(ツ)_/¯ said:

In reply to golfduke :

I didn't know my internal dialogue had a GRM account!

It's a scary place to be... buy the Tundra.  Haha

I personally would be paying a good, trusted mechanic to give that Tundra a good going over as a pre-purchase inspection, and planning on buying it. 

In reply to Curtis73 (Forum Supporter) :

Although I am aware you know this, you neglected to remind him of the difference in the way a 1/2 ton and that 3/4 ton tows 

Power to pull is only about a 1/3 of the story. It's gotta be able to manage the load, and stop it as well.

HP and TQ peaks matter less than "power under the curve" so to speak (something you also know well!)

But it sounds like the lighter truck would tow his needs, so  I'm no help in his decision.