JG Pasterjak
JG Pasterjak Production/Art Director
1/17/25 7:25 a.m.

In recent editorial meetings, I’ve been asked to share a few more driving tips that I’ve picked up from my now nearly 40 (gulp) years behind the wheel. Okay, first a little pause for me to wonder how the hell I got so old before I go yell at a neighborhood kid for wearing his pants “funny,” then we’ll get …

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J.A. Ackley
J.A. Ackley Senior Editor
1/17/25 11:33 a.m.

It's always interesting to see how a seasoned driver will hone their craft. A champion racer once told me there's nothing that can't be improved. That applies for drivers, too.

Tom1200
Tom1200 PowerDork
1/17/25 11:35 a.m.

We all know once you go to the throttle you should never take it off but I was surprised your being caught out by this.

I've always felt the one thing you learn in an under powered car is this. If you get into the throttle to hard to early (easy to do in them) the understeer scrubs off a tom of speed.

It shows up on what you call the redneck motec (the tach).

+500 on the driver coach.

Tom1200
Tom1200 PowerDork
1/17/25 12:39 p.m.
J.A. Ackley said:

It's always interesting to see how a "seasoned" driver will hone their craft.

So are you suggesting JG is rubbing himself down with Paprika and Cayenne Pepper before he gets in the car?

JG Pasterjak
JG Pasterjak Production/Art Director
1/17/25 1:22 p.m.

"Seasoned"

 

ouch, guys. 

livinon2wheels
livinon2wheels GRM+ Memberand Reader
1/17/25 1:57 p.m.

I can't speak for anyone else on this but for my own part when I get on track its very hard to take a step back and concentrate on the driving AND on watching out for those little bad habits that we may be totally unconscious of inserting into our performance. I always liked having the benefit of in-car coaching, and hearing those critical comments at the time they happen...I never saw that as a blow to the ego but more as the constructive criticism that I needed in order to be faster. The value of the extra pair of eyes can't be overstated. Picking up a few 10ths here and there pretty soon adds up to real benefits in lap time reduction. Regardless of changes and tweaks made to the car, the biggest changes for me came from tightening up the nut behind the wheel. I hope my skills will continue to improve but at the age of 72, this may be as good as it gets. :)

Tom1200
Tom1200 PowerDork
1/17/25 2:49 p.m.
JG Pasterjak said:

"Seasoned"

 

ouch, guys. 

You still haven't answered the question....................

We should tell people that giving yourself a dry rub will make you faster...............I bet $50 at least 100 drivers try it.

theruleslawyer
theruleslawyer HalfDork
1/17/25 2:55 p.m.
Tom1200 said:
JG Pasterjak said:

"Seasoned"

 

ouch, guys. 

You still haven't answered the question....................

We should tell people that giving yourself a dry rub will make you faster...............I bet $50 at least 100 drivers try it.

I think he might have to marinate on that one.

z31maniac
z31maniac MegaDork
1/17/25 4:23 p.m.
Tom1200 said:

We all know once you go to the throttle you should never take it off but I was surprised your being caught out by this.

I've always felt the one thing you learn in an under powered car is this. If you get into the throttle to hard to early (easy to do in them) the understeer scrubs off a tom of speed.

It shows up on what you call the redneck motec (the tach).

+500 on the driver coach.

There was a saying when I rode sport bikes. 

"95% of the time more throttle is the answer. 5% of the time it ends the suspense."

RaceRed
RaceRed New Reader
1/18/25 11:47 a.m.

I decidedly don't have that much track time in and what I have had is largely in HPDRE events.  Recently, I "earned" my solo novice status, but have decided after meeting a young professional drivers karting coach, I have decided to attend his school which conveniently is at the same track I've been attending HPDRE events.  

I spoke with this coach several times, and since I'm retired, he, or one of his other instructors can work one on one with me earlier in the day during the weekdays.  Since I'm primarily interested in improving my "racecraft", I figured why not try this route.  It's far less expensive than using my Mustang, and this is the route where most young drivers cut their racing chops these days anyway.  Plus, he mentioned that as I get more comfortable with the track, the kart, and my skillset, they have a racing series on that same track for those so inclined.  

So, here's to changing it up a bit!

 

kb58
kb58 UltraDork
1/18/25 12:13 p.m.

I know this is about track driving, but...

In my case, on the street, I learned to embrace the suck. Traffic is such that driving anything at all sporty is enormously frustrating, so I solved that by buying a compact SUV. No more frustration.

ProCoach
ProCoach GRM+ Memberand New Reader
2/11/25 1:20 p.m.

The best drivers are naturally curious and strive to be better in everything they do in the car. 

I love that you've limited it to "three things." Any more and it gets lost in the sauce.

This is my twenty-third year of coaching remotely. First by Race Technology DL-1 and CDS data, then by Traqmate, AiM, MoTeC and VBOX data and video. Even using the Garmin Catalyst app and Apex Pro, useful information and low-hanging fruit can be harvested.

It's a fantastic use of the technology, and beyond a point, drivers respond better to a post-session analysis and deep dive into the underpinnings of why they are doing what they do and how to do it better, than in the car.

 

More like this, please.

ShiftLess
ShiftLess GRM+ Memberand New Reader
2/11/25 1:51 p.m.

How do you develop bravery?  Or at least getting comfortable with that light and sketchy feeling that comes with dancing close to the edge at track speeds, as opposed to autocross speeds.  And I don't mean taking wild chances... at almost 62 years old, and relatively new to tracking cars (seven or so years anyway).  I am beginning to think I need to just accept I'm never going to be within that last 5% of same class lap times because my sense of self preservation has been too well developed aka chicken... and likely too many bad habits committed to muscle memory.   

But not giving up! Hoping more seat time, and kart time if my body can deal, and coaching will help me identify the low hanging fruit anyway.

E46m3miata
E46m3miata New Reader
2/11/25 2:34 p.m.

In reply to ShiftLess :

Find a venue that has one or more skidpads available to use. Learning to do the under/oversteer dance and being able to feel the weight transferred that happen with each, will give you the confidence to drive that way on the track.

Skidpads are also the best place to teach yourself how left foot braking gently transfers weight to the front axle without getting a commensurate looseness from the rear axle.

JG Pasterjak
JG Pasterjak Tech Editor & Production Manager
2/11/25 2:49 p.m.
ShiftLess said:

How do you develop bravery?  Or at least getting comfortable with that light and sketchy feeling that comes with dancing close to the edge at track speeds, as opposed to autocross speeds.  And I don't mean taking wild chances... at almost 62 years old, and relatively new to tracking cars (seven or so years anyway).  I am beginning to think I need to just accept I'm never going to be within that last 5% of same class lap times because my sense of self preservation has been too well developed aka chicken... and likely too many bad habits committed to muscle memory.   

But not giving up! Hoping more seat time, and kart time if my body can deal, and coaching will help me identify the low hanging fruit anyway.

This is a great question, and the answer is going to be different for everyone, but I think the important thing you look at is what your natural tendency to approach the unknown is and apply that to track activities.

For me, there was never a more clear measure of this then when I was riding motocross. Clearing a certain jump for the first time requires both a metaphoric and truly literal leap of faith, and the consequences of failure are there to meet you immediately in the dirt.

So my approach tended to be fairly analytical. it wasn't hard to do the math on speed and launch angle and just tell myself "the difference between clearing this and casing it is only 5mph." Of course, regardless of how airtight the physics were, i still had to execute, but knowing I had math on my side let me focus more on that execution than the theory.

My favorite thing was still talking to some of the young folks at the track and asking them for riding advice. Like, just some 14 year old kid with great genes and endless natural athletic ability effortlessly flying around like he's wired to the bike. I remember asking one of those kids how he was clearing a particular jump i was having trouble with and his answer was 'Dude I just pretend there's girls watching." weirdly it actually helped a bit.

Tom1200
Tom1200 PowerDork
2/11/25 2:56 p.m.
ShiftLess said:

How do you develop bravery?  Or at least getting comfortable with that light and sketchy feeling that comes with dancing close to the edge at track speeds, as opposed to autocross speeds.  And I don't mean taking wild chances... at almost 62 years old, and relatively new to tracking cars (seven or so years anyway).  I am beginning to think I need to just accept I'm never going to be within that last 5% of same class lap times because my sense of self preservation has been too well developed aka chicken... and likely too many bad habits committed to muscle memory.   

But not giving up! Hoping more seat time, and kart time if my body can deal, and coaching will help me identify the low hanging fruit anyway.

There are several things you can do but first let me add you are not developing bravery; you are working on controlled aggression. I am the same age as you but happen to be super aggressive (A.D.D motorcycle racer) There is a fine line between aggressive and stupid.

Here is how I manage it in an unfamiliar car or track:

First start by nailing your turn in speed. I’ve found for most cars trail braking is the key to getting the car to rotate and conserve that momentum. Read I’m using the brakes to turn the car more so than to necessarily slow it down. I make the comment about getting the car on a trajectory; read once you turn in your path from turn in to exit is set.

When to brake is as simple this; if you are still threshold braking when you should be transitioning to trail braking, which typically happens as you turn in, then you’ve left it to late.

As for when to let off the brakes; if you over rotate the car you’ve left the brakes on to long. If you let off the brakes and the car drifts wide of the apex you’ve come off the brakes to early. You basically zero in on it like Goldylocks; not to hard not to soft.

I set the apex based on one that allows me to use the least amount of steering lock as well as travel the shortest distance through the corner.

Next, you should be applying the throttle at the same rate you unwind the steering wheel. If you roll into the throttle to soon you'll get understeer starting at the apex. If you are too aggressive with the throttle you get wheelspin power oversteer. Both of those are easy to correct by simply applying the throttle later or using less.

Work all of this in the slower corners than move it to medium speed corners. After you have those down slowly work on any high speed corners. High speed corners require super smooth inputs to keep from scrubbing a ton of speed. There is nothing wrong with going 98% in areas of the track that have a huge penalty for getting it wrong.

Getting an instructor to drive your car will often show you where there is potential. 

 

 

 

codrus (Forum Supporter)
codrus (Forum Supporter) GRM+ Memberand UltimaDork
2/11/25 4:19 p.m.
ShiftLess said:

How do you develop bravery?  Or at least getting comfortable with that light and sketchy feeling that comes with dancing close to the edge at track speeds, as opposed to autocross speeds.  And I don't mean taking wild chances... at almost 62 years old, and relatively new to tracking cars (seven or so years anyway).  I am beginning to think I need to just accept I'm never going to be within that last 5% of same class lap times because my sense of self preservation has been too well developed aka chicken... and likely too many bad habits committed to muscle memory.   

Bad habits can be unlearned.  The best way that I've found to do that is to get a coach, data system, and an in-car radio.  Coach drives the car and sets a reference lap, I drive the car, and we sit down at the laptop together to identify things to work on.  Then the coach goes to a good observation spot with the notes from the laptop session and uses the radio to remind me of the things to change as I'm approaching the appropriate corners.  For me at least, the radio is key -- trying to do this from memory works poorly at best because as soon as I get behind the wheel the adrenaline kicks in and I forget everything we had talked about.

Learning bravery is trickier, the best I've been able to do is to sneak up on it little increments at a time.  It helps to identify corners in which you can experiment with faster entry speeds that have relatively low consequences for screwing up.

 

68ELCO
68ELCO GRM+ Memberand New Reader
2/11/25 4:46 p.m.

In reply to livinon2wheels :

At the age of 71, I find my chicken foot getting bigger and bigger. My brakes just as good today as 5 years ago. I now finding myself slowing way to early and having to apply the throttle just to get through the corner. Trust your brakes, that's what I have to work on.

Tom1200
Tom1200 PowerDork
2/11/25 4:46 p.m.
codrus (Forum Supporter) said:

Learning bravery is trickier, the best I've been able to do is to sneak up on it little increments at a time.  It helps to identify corners in which you can experiment with faster entry speeds that have relatively low consequences for screwing up.

 

Exactly this. 

 

DaleCarter
DaleCarter GRM+ Memberand Reader
2/11/25 9:47 p.m.

I leave the timer off on about half of my track days to work on technique. It's a good idea. If you have a predictive lap timer, turn it off or cover it.

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