3 second 0-60 Mustang GT, stock

In reply to WildScotsRacing:

Almost no cost targets and almost no reliability targets. No regard for potholes, long-term wear, tramlining, blah blah blah. It's an extremely different use case.

The guy who designs a bracket to hold some component under the dash of your average Camry has a way harder job than the Ferrari powertrain folks. His bracket has to cost less than $0.05, be installed in less than five seconds by a robot, have one fastener, must never ever ever break, and tons of other considerations you'd never think of.

In reply to tuna55:

Fascinating. You just fully explained nearly every weird engineering compromise I've ever cussed at.

I can't believe this comparison is still going on after 5 pages. I love Ferraris and Mustangs, and own or have owned both, but can't really imagine realistically comparing the two.

In reply to Cotton:

Just wait until we start comparing the new Camaro to the Veyron. That's when it gets interesting.

Bobzilla wrote: In reply to Cotton: Just wait until we start comparing the new Camaro to the Veyron. That's when it gets interesting.

Or the Ridgeline to a real truck!

alfadriver wrote: In reply to FlightService: You do realize that the Mustang is an LS, don't you? So you can get an LS with a v8 and a manual and a fully independent suspension. Just with 2 doors. And a Ford badge. edit- and the LS and Jag were identical cars- other than 0.1l displacement. Actually, the LS V6 was the only one with a manual.

You might want to re-read what I wrote. Yes I know the V6 was the only one that was available with a stick. Hence the swing and a miss comment, and the Mustang is hardly a luxury sporting GT. Although I will admit it is getting nicer by the revision.

FlightService wrote: In reply to BlueInGreen44: I would have loved a Lincoln LS V8 stick. It had plenty of space, comfortable, not horribly priced. It was a great opportunity to really rebrand Lincoln into the American Jaguar (Yes I know Ford owned Jag at the time, I meant sporting luxury GT cars). Swing and a miss Ford. Swing and a miss.

I knew the new Mustang was based on the LS/S type cars, but the pony doesn't have functional rear seats for adults of any size, limited rear headroom, a very long front end. I think it looks great but it really would compete with a LS V8 stick even if it was made because of usability. The Lincoln could have been Fords true sports sedan with the stang being what it always has been.

I guess now all that is left is to find a pristine LS and swap the Mustang drivetrain into it...

In reply to tuna55:

A nickel? You wouldn't last a week on the job! LOL

In reply to FlightService:

Call it a swing and miss- but if the game your playing isn't baseball, well, it's hard to convince your buyers to get something they don't want. And at some point, one has to realize that keeping your current audience sells more cars than going after a different audience. So it's hard to tell if it was a good or bad thing the LS didn't survive longer.

I would have loved to see us keep and refine that car, but that was a frustrating era for that.

One of my friends ( a bonafide Ford nut) has an LS V8. Seems awfully small to me.

Had a v8 ls. Worked on it myself and everything. There's no way that car could make it in life with the existence of the e39 5 series as its competition.

I honestly don't see how the mustang and ls were related. It was mostly s type jaguar. The mustang engine doesn't even fit in the car, at all. They shared the same auto trans, kinda. For a Lincoln it was sporty and handled well, but the 540i and even the e class were eating it alive. Hell it wasn't even more reliable than its german rivals . Maybe Lincoln could've made something out of it if it had about 50 more hp and could handle as well. The 6 cylinder came with a 5spd manual but no one really bought it. Which makes sense, its a Lincoln. If jaguar would've put a 4.2 supercharged engine in it then..

What a terrible time to get married. How am I supposed to convince her I need a 2018 when I only have 35k miles on the 2015?

ultraclyde wrote: We've actually reached a level where someone shopping an Italian exotic might actually cross shop a Mustang. (okay, so even then it's a high-end specialty edition, but none the less...) That's pretty remarkable.

This ^^^

Though Mustangs and Ferraris are still just like hemorrhoids....

And the interior will probably still look like this.

At least the engine team isn't asleep. Every other design group on that car is.

Had a v8 ls. Worked on it myself and everything. There's no way that car could make it in life with the existence of the e39 5 series as its competition.

And the e39 was way older! I've done some work on and driven v8 lincoln LS's and while they were sort of impressive as a Lincoln product in their time period, they still weren't great objectively. Coming from a company that basically sold a fancy crown vic and a fancy expedition, it seemed like a step in the right direction, and i think it was. But without any especially enthusiast-y version it's sort of like the 1g CTS in non-V form. A big step at the time becomes a pretty E36 M3ty car by modern standards because progress has been amazing. Every discussion about the LS is mostly about the version they never built, or that forum posters would like to build but also probably never will.

I would love there to be a sporty, well handling, 4 door, RWD V8 sedan that fits 4 people comfortably and that I could afford.

A Mustang or Camaro would do if they could actually hold 4 people in comfort.

Funny the turn in direction of this thread.

Remember, this is about a car that has been clocked 0-60 in less than 4 seconds that one will be able to get at a Ford dealership, soon. And it doesn't cost huge money.

Amazing car, but we seem to like to focus on the negative instead of the positive of this development.

It's 2017 now, the LS was stopped in 2006- and if you will recall, that was a pretty tough period for Ford- prior to the global economic downturn, Ford went through a pretty rough period. Not everything was going to survive that era- especially cars that were either not making money, or was very marginal at making money. Yes, it sucked that a car with such potential died- and it sucks that a car still hasn't been brought back. But one must really understand that there are reasons that Lincoln could not afford that car. And, honestly, what happened to the auto industry just 2 years later really backed up that decision.

Things have changed, as has Lincoln. My biggest fault with Lincoln as a brand is that there's no real brand identity- does it want to be sporty or luxury? Or both? Do you want to be more like Acura (using common platforms) or like Lexus (more independent platforms)? I was asking that question even when making the MKS 7 years ago, and struggle to really answer that question. THAT is the real question for Lincoln. Not that it has to have a RWD platform or not, or that it swung and missed with the LS- that's not important until you define what Lincoln is.

Still- this whole thing is brought up by an amazing car that you can buy for less than a Caddy. With a Ford badge on it. And a little horse galloping across the hood. And that's not a bad thing at all.

alfadriver wrote: Funny the turn in direction of this thread. Remember, this is about a car that has been clocked 0-60 in less than 4 seconds that one will be able to get at a Ford dealership, soon. And it doesn't cost huge money. Amazing car, but we seem to like to focus on the negative instead of the positive of this development. It's 2017 now, the LS was stopped in 2006- and if you will recall, that was a pretty tough period for Ford- prior to the global economic downturn, Ford went through a pretty rough period. Not everything was going to survive that era- especially cars that were either not making money, or was very marginal at making money. Yes, it sucked that a car with such potential died- and it sucks that a car still hasn't been brought back. But one must really understand that there are reasons that Lincoln could not afford that car. And, honestly, what happened to the auto industry just 2 years later really backed up that decision. Things have changed, as has Lincoln. My biggest fault with Lincoln as a brand is that there's no real brand identity- does it want to be sporty or luxury? Or both? Do you want to be more like Acura (using common platforms) or like Lexus (more independent platforms)? I was asking that question even when making the MKS 7 years ago, and struggle to really answer that question. THAT is the real question for Lincoln. Not that it has to have a RWD platform or not, or that it swung and missed with the LS- that's not important until you define what Lincoln is. Still- this whole thing is brought up by an amazing car that you can buy for less than a Caddy. With a Ford badge on it. And a little horse galloping across the hood. And that's not a bad thing at all.

We agree fully on this. The Mustang has changed faster than any other car, into a 'meh' performance, packaging, interior and everything really, to a true world beater. It's similar to the Corvette's evolution from 1991 to 2001 Z06 guise, but maybe faster.

In reply to lnlogauge:

At that price point, who cares what the interior looks like? All I care is that I can reach the buttons I need to, it's intuitive enough to find things and it's comfortable to sit in. So what if every button happens to be dick shaped or something?

In reply to alfadriver:

Agreed. 0-60 in under 4 sec for (I'm guessing) under $40K is insane. I'd still rather row my own gears, so I'm willing to give up that 0-60 time for that privilege, but still.

As far as Lincoln is concerned - I agree the brand lacks identity. Especially since a standard Ford model is pretty damn close in features and comfort. I've thought for some time Lincoln should stop trying to compete with the Germans. Or even Cadillac. Go back to what the brand was in its beginning. Of course, if the rumors of Ford killing off some of the current sedan models are true, then maybe that will open up market room for Lincoln models, although the loss of platform sharing will push pricing higher. All I know right now is a friend has a MKS Hybrid and he likes it a lot.

lnlogauge wrote: And the interior will probably still look like this. At least the engine team isn't asleep. Every other design group on that car is.

I prefer buttons to having to search through endless menus on a touch screen (ie taking my eyes off the road) to do anything from changing the station to the A/C, etc.

I'm not overly fond of the exterior design on the S550, but I think the interior is better than average for a V8 coupe. Of course, design is subjective, but compare the dash above

to the hellcat:

and the camaro:

I definitely prefer the Ford, as I said...that's a subjective statement. 0-60 times are not.

All of those interiors look perfectly fine pretty.

Coming from the guy driving a 29 year old Honda.

Not to completely de-rail the thread:

I miss the interior/simplicity of the controls on my V1 Cts-v vs. the V2, though pretty much everyone slams the "cheap" interior on the V1's.

Sub-menus within sub-menus are annoying. And any time I do ANYTHING (Turn the headlights on, set the cruise, change the suspension to "sport-mode" etc,) the digital speedometer goes away to tell me what I already know I just did.

The idea of a 4 door Mustang really appeals to me. With the boys growing like weeds and only two seats in back, my Mustang is the only vehicle we own where I can't take all four kids, and if I'm honest, it's tight for three. I wouldn't mind something with the same powertrain (V8/manual), and seating for three adults across in back. And in typical GRM fashion, I would never buy one remotely close to new.

The Charger is something that interests me (especially because AWD is an option, which would be helpful here in the Northeast), as does something like a used Caprice PPV. What's more likely is that when the Mustang goes, it'll be replaced by something boring like a crew-cab pickup, an SUV, or a minivan.

Y'all sound like y'all need to find your way into some AMG's or M5's... go ahead do it